Xenon - My New Project

[Lindsey]

Driver board TP2 reads 189VDC and TP4 is at 247VDC...

What's next?

That tells you the high voltage section (displays) is working.

I would check the other voltages next. There should be +5VDC at TP1. You can connect TP1 and TP3 together. Other than that I would just do any tests in Clays guide and move on. You're going to need a working MPU soon

 

[FrizzleFried]

TP 1 & 3 both measure 5.06VDC and TP5 measures 12.85 or so VDC...


Are there any tests I can do to the burned coil circuits to test to see if there is an issue or am I going to have to wait for the MPU?

 

[Lindsey]

TP 1 & 3 both measure 5.06VDC and TP5 measures 12.85 or so VDC...


Are there any tests I can do to the burned coil circuits to test to see if there is an issue or am I going to have to wait for the MPU?

You could determine which transistors drive those coils and test those as well as the pre-drivers.

 

[FrizzleFried]

You could determine which transistors drive those coils and test those as well as the pre-drivers.

Remember... you're dealing with someone who's never done this stuff.

I assume I can determine which transistors drive those coils by looking at the manuals/schematics?

How does one test a transistor?

What exactly is a "pre-driver" and how does one test it?

...or would you suggest I just wait for the MPU?

 

[Lindsey]

I assume I can determine which transistors drive those coils by looking at the manuals/schematics?

Yes, or just test them all. There are only 19 solenoid driver circuits (15 momentary and 4 permanent).

How does one test a transistor?

Should be covered in detail on pinrepair.com but I would start by checking for continuity between the tabs on the driver transistors and ground. That will tell you if they're shorted. Then go on to testing them with the diode setting on your meter.

What exactly is a "pre-driver" and how does one test it?

The pre-driver is a transistor that drives the driver transistor. On Bally games the pre-drivers are in a transistor array IC. Again it should be covered on pinrepair. The transistors are cascaded like this because the one of sixteen decoder IC that's driving the solenoids can't source enough current to drive the TIP102s on it's own so it needs the pre-driver there allowing a small amount of current to turn on the pre-driver which then turns on the transistor that actually powers the coil.

...or would you suggest I just wait for the MPU?

A working MPU will make things somewhat easier but you may still end up needing to trace through the driver board. You might as well see if there are any transistors that are obviously shorted.

 

[FrizzleFried]

Well, I can at least identify the transistors... and I tested them all for continuity and none had any (no beep). I am not sure what the pre-drivers look like or how to test them. I did note that the resister above Q3 had burned out and has since been replaced... as was the small black resister looking thing next to it (different type of reisister or diode?)... but no other damage noted.

I looked in the manual and coil #3 is listed as the ball release though...

 

[tester007]

Are the tube light "inserts" under the plastics supposed to be blue as well? They are a similar color "blah" as the posts. There sure are a TON of posts... I'll be buying all new blue posts... what are the plastic light "tube" things called they put over the GI lamps?

http://www.pbresource.com/lampcov.html

Lamp sleeves. Search in RGVAC for xenon lamp sleeves or something like that.. there is a discussion on which go where. I also looked at the flyer closely on IPDB for colors and locations. Yours will probably look pink due to age, and some light blue.. originally there was red and blue... the blue turned pink over time.
I'd probably wait to get a good mpu before getting too stressed out on what it 'may' be..other than the basic transitor tests..etc. The kicker switch from what I have read notoriously sticks. It was sticking on mine as well and manifested by eliminating the background beating sound..nothing else..I thought it was always a sound board issue, replacing roms, parts...etc..etc. until I got it all running properly and it became easy to work out. getting the game running should help to narrow it down considerably.

I also added led's in some locations as well as the aftermarket tube.. it looks pretty cool now.. new cpr playfield as well.. I gotta post some vid one of these days..

 

[Burt6666]

REAL soon,tester....I wanna see how my old game turned out....

 

[tester007]

REAL soon,tester....I wanna see how my old game turned out....

Maybe I'll try this weekend.. I gotta get the garage in some sort of order.. back to 10 concurrent projects going including the Black Knight so its tip-toe space which drives me nuts... I got the xenon together, put all the LED's in..etc..etc.. and played a few games, then proceeded to use it as a table for all the junk on the other projects like I always seem to do with pins left out in the open.

That lane switch drove me nuts for a while... if you don't get multiball it doesn't really show itself obviously. I just didn't want to play it until I had all the issues solved so had that sound board out so many times chasing my tail... I think there is a display issue now on one or two of the scoreboards but have to plug it in and see. The playfield swap was a lot of work on that one and I needed a break.


And P.S.
Friz, like Lyndsey says, just look at this as pieces, not as a whole. Its actually easier I think in some ways than vids since the circuits are usually far more simpler and there is far more documentation on fixing these things than a particular vid unless its pac or asteroids sort of thing. Its easier on pins to look at the part failing usually and work back and find the part responsible quickly since things are like chains off of a main board.. you'll see as you go. Xenon is a great game and yours looks to be in great shape.. pins almost have more of a satisfaction I think when you fix it.. at least for myself.

 

[FrizzleFried]

Okey dokey...

Lindsey was so kind to sell me an MPU which I took possession of today.

The GOOD News:

The pin lights up (well, minus a number of GI bulbs but I digress)... the flashing lights are flashing... the backbox lights are moving...

The sound appears to be working. I hear "XENON" or some such thing and some noises... w00t!

The BAD News:

No displays. None. Nothing. Nata. Zilch. All of them remain blank.

No pinballs. >ARGH< I thought I had a few old pinballs I could use to test the machine with... Nope... I s-canned them about a month back. All I have are my nice pinballs in my other 2 cabs... not sure if I want to go rolling them around a dirty playfield.

I press the little button (I assume it's a service button) and nothing.

Where do I go now? I assume I should try to figure out the display problem first?

 

[Lindsey]

The first thing I would check is the fuse for the display voltage then the voltage at the test point on the driver board. I'm pretty sure you already did that but I would recheck. From there you could check for display voltage and +5 at the displays themselves.

That MPU was driving displays fine on my test bench so hopefully the MPU is not the problem.

 

[FrizzleFried]

The first thing I would check is the fuse for the display voltage then the voltage at the test point on the driver board. I'm pretty sure you already did that but I would recheck. From there you could check for display voltage and +5 at the displays themselves.

That MPU was driving displays fine on my test bench so hopefully the MPU is not the problem.

Where does one test at the display (is it labeled?).... and which TP is the proper TP on the driver board?

Also of note:

I found a couple pins. I credit up it says WELCOME TO XENON then kicks the ball in to the shooter lane. At this point the flippers work. I plunge and kick the ball in to the playfield and then I hear a "Bee bee bee bee bee" sound going from higher pitch to lower pitch and the flipper coils turn off?

 

[FrizzleFried]

OK... did a little reading on the guide and determined where to measure the display...

At the solenoid driver board I get 189VDC at TP2 and about 240 at TP4. That appears to be normal.

At the actual display I get about 5VDC at TP2 and NOTHING at TP1. I tried 3 displays.

 

[Lindsey]

OK... did a little reading on the guide and determined where to measure the display...

At the solenoid driver board I get 189VDC at TP2 and about 240 at TP4. That appears to be normal.

At the actual display I get about 5VDC at TP2 and NOTHING at TP1. I tried 3 displays.

Do you mean +5 at TP1 and nothing at TP2 at the displays?

The display voltage fuse on the driver board is probably blown. Note that the test point is BEFORE the fuse (take a look at the schematic).

EDIT: There is probably a good reason it's blown.

EDIT2: This might be a good time to point out some useful but not so relevant to this situation information. Stern games actually have that fuse external to the driver board. This is an important consideration when using a Stern regulator/driver board in a Bally game. In your case if you have a legitimate problem causing that fuse to blow and you dropped a Stern regulator/driver board in the game there would be no fuse on that circuit and very bad things could happen.

 

[FrizzleFried]

Holy crap am I a dumbass.

Sure glad you mentioned that driver board fuse. What is one of the things I was supposed to do before measuring the voltages on that board? Oh yeah... REMOVE THAT TINY LITTLE FUSE.

Guess what works now.

Uh huh.

I'm an idiot.

Now on to the next problems... I assume I have some switch issues when it comes to it ejecting the ball then ending the game... ?

EDIT: That is fixed (tilt circuit was short).

OK... looks like I get to work on lighting and those two bad coils. Now, how to test if those coil circuits are good or should I just wire it up and if they go hot immediately I know something is wrong?

Also, I notice the sounds are off. I assume there is a "chime" setting for this game... evidently it's currently set for CHIME... is that a dip switch setting or, once I get the button working for the SERVICE MODE is it something in there?

 

[Lindsey]

Holy crap am I a dumbass.

Sure glad you mentioned that driver board fuse. What is one of the things I was supposed to do before measuring the voltages on that board? Oh yeah... REMOVE THAT TINY LITTLE FUSE.

Guess what works now.

Uh huh.

I'm an idiot.

Now on to the next problems... I assume I have some switch issues when it comes to it ejecting the ball then ending the game... ?

So the displays work now? That's good news

I would take a look at the manual and run through the solenoid test to make sure the correct number solenoid is energizing when it should be. Could be a problem with the decoder IC on the driver board.

 

[FrizzleFried]

Yup... displays are working (well, the credit display is dying but other than that we're)...

Fixed the Service button...got the sounds working right (setting 18 has to be at 03)...

To do: replace and test those two solenoids... LOTS of lights. Some of the GI lamps (like 3/4 of them!) aren't working. Unfortunately it's not the bulbs (not all anyway)... some have been replaced to only stay unlit.

 

[Lindsey]

Is the game working other than the disconnected solenoids now? At this point you'll want to find out why those coils fried in the first place or at least test the driver circuits before installing your new coils.

As far as the feature lamps go if I were you I would use the LED board I sent you to test the lamp driver SCRs first. Starting with a known lamp driver board will making troubleshooting any lamp problems that might come up easier. Then you can replace all the lamps and "fix" some sockets.

ahh... just noticed your edit

OK... looks like I get to work on lighting and those two bad coils. Now, how to test if those coil circuits are good or should I just wire it up and if they go hot immediately I know something is wrong?

For the second time, no don't do that

I would find out which transistors are driving those coils then check for continuity to ground at the metal tabs of the transistors with the game off. If there is no continuity you can presume that those transistors are not shorted. If there is continuity you'll have to replace the transistor and move on to checking the pre-driver stuff as well. If there's no continuity I would then check them with the game on. You could still do a continuity check but a better way (less chance of frying your meter if something goes weird) would be to use the voltage setting on your meter putting the red lead on the positive solenoid voltage at the power supply and the black lead on the tab of each transistor. You should see no voltage with the game on and in attract mode. If you see voltage and there was no continuity to ground in the last test you can assume something before that transistor is "stuck on". Could be the pre-driver transistor or shorted pins on the decoder IC. That's not necessarily fool proof. Just what I would do off the top of my head. I'm sure there is also a systematic method on pinrepair.com.

If all of that stuff checks out I would still probably run the solenoid test and make sure those transistors are working as expected with a meter but you could just hook up the coils at that point. We know the transistors are not "on" all the time.

Just be sure that your coil diode is not backwards when you install the new coils. That will cause you to explode the driver transistor.

 

[FrizzleFried]

Are Bally lamp sockets SO bad that a good 1/3 of my lamps don't power on?

I have a few that go off and on if you touch them...or 1/2 power... etc... but others are just dead... and new bulbs do nothing. Some are GI... some are CPU controlled.

I read that Bally sockets suck... but are they THAT bad that this is norm?

Bay Area Amusements wants $2.75 per socket! Anyone know of a cheaper vendor?

 

[Lindsey]

Are Bally lamp sockets SO bad that a good 1/3 of my lamps don't power on?

I have a few that go off and on if you touch them...or 1/2 power... etc... but others are just dead... and new bulbs do nothing. Some are GI... some are CPU controlled.

I read that Bally sockets suck... but are they THAT bad that this is norm?

Bay Area Amusements wants $2.75 per socket! Anyone know of a cheaper vendor?

The answer is it depends. I've seen games where all of the sockets were really loose and others where the sockets were tight and worked well throughout the game. Try turning the socket housing. If it's loose and you see the light come on you know you've got a bad socket. If you look at the socket you'll see that there is a connection made between 2 pieces (what you could call the housing and the base) that's just pressed together. If that joint becomes loose you will have intermittent or no contact and symptoms like what you're seeing.

Replacing all of the sockets is not practical. They can be "fixed" but it's pretty time consuming. I cover this somewhat here:

http://warpzonearcade.com/?p=181

It's also covered on pinrepair.com.

I still think you should do what I suggested above and use the LED board to test the lamp driver SCRs. That will answer your question for you.