Wizard of Oz Questions

TimmyFnD

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I haven't been active on the forums for a few months and was wondering what was going on with the Wizard of Oz pinballs. Have they been shipped out to everyone that preordered them yet, if not any idea when they will be? Also can you still purchase the regular editions?
 
They should be shipping (LE's) by end of March. You can still buy regular editions, bur they won't be manufactured until the run of LEs are made. I think the first 1000 regular WOZs are also numbered.

Visited the JJP factory in Dec, and the build quality of these games is amazing. Makes it obvious how cheaply made the current Stern games are (although the look and feel alone are telling). There's a WOZ prototype on location here in NYC too, and is far out-earning the Avengers Hulk LE right next to it, even with a very basic ruleset.
 
Last I heard was that many of them are assembled and ready to ship, just waiting on final code revisions.

I do know they have prototypes out on location in a few select places for testing/feedback.

-Hans
 
the build quality of these games is amazing. Makes it obvious how cheaply made the current Stern games are

I just can't wait for all the new owners to start threads about "anyone having problems with this or that on their WOZ" whenever it is they might actually receive them.

I hope this game does well, but for 2 years now all we hear about is how this 1 game will put stern out of business. JJP is taking orders for a second machine when the first has not even been delivered yet?

Geeze!
 
I just can't wait for all the new owners to start threads about "anyone having problems with this or that on their WOZ" whenever it is they might actually receive them.

I hope this game does well, but for 2 years now all we hear about is how this 1 game will put stern out of business. JJP is taking orders for a second machine when the first has not even been delivered yet?

Geeze!

You're looking forward to people having issues with their pin?

thats a weird angle on the world. ;-)

Honestly, after paying an arm and a leg for a couple of 'better' sterns (TSPP and POTC) I just gave up. They feel like cheap crap. Just like American cars were garbage in the 70's...

Did honda and Toyota put the big 3 out of business? No. But it sure made they sit up and pay attention.

I hope jjp oz owners get a great game and I hope stern sits up and pays attention. I'd LOVE to see stern start making quality pins.
 
I also attended the JJP Christmas open house back in December. Two months ago, there were dozens of completed cabinets lined up and dozens more in various states on the assembly line. It was really fascinating.

I don't want to get involved in the politics of how great JJP may or may not be or who they may or may not crush in the market place. I just want to see a great reliable game that moves the industry forward. Competition can only help.

I may "invest" in one of the regular models later in the spring when they start to ship. From what I was told, other than the "emerald" trim of the LE version, the JJP glass and shaker motor can be added to the regular edition machine for a few hundred dollars more.

Bill
 

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I am not sold on the LCD thing yet, I will just have to play one in person I guess. I still think DMD's have a lot of charm.
 
It's worth noting that most of the overly-dramatic discussion about WOZ (either sucking or being the greatest thing ever) is by people who aren't buyers in the first place, but just trying to be dramatic.

Most of us buyers are content to be patient. Anyone who is frustrated they haven't received their game yet is free to request a refund or sell their position to someone else, which has been done multiple times as of late, for a profit.

The consensus among the buyers, IMO is that they are hopefully optimistic based on the details that are known about the game, the talented design team which is a "who's who" of accomplished industry people, and the fact that Jack has pulled out all the stops to make a high-quality game.

Of course, the game will probably have glitches, and people will gloat, bitch and moan, and use every opportunity to take pot shots at JJP, Stern and everyone in between, but at the end of the day, when the game is delivered, if you weed through all the people with biased agendas, we'll find out how good the game is.
 
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I am not sold on the LCD thing yet, I will just have to play one in person I guess. I still think DMD's have a lot of charm.

While it's debatable weather or not an LCD is the way to go I will say I was very impressed that the LCD gave virtually no glare on the play field at all. Far less than any DMD I've seen. That alone is impressive IMO.

Game play aside since I can't say I've played WOZ I will say that the cabinet looks like the highest quality pin I have ever seen from any company ever.
 
You're looking forward to people having issues with their pin?

thats a weird angle on the world. ;-)

Honestly, after paying an arm and a leg for a couple of 'better' sterns (TSPP and POTC) I just gave up. They feel like cheap crap. Just like American cars were garbage in the 70's...

Did honda and Toyota put the big 3 out of business? No. But it sure made they sit up and pay attention.

I hope jjp oz owners get a great game and I hope stern sits up and pays attention. I'd LOVE to see stern start making quality pins.

Not saying that, just saying that their build quality will be no different and people will have problems. There is a difference between some sample games and games from mass production(just saying)
 
Not saying that, just saying that their build quality will be no different and people will have problems. There is a difference between some sample games and games from mass production(just saying)

I was referring to non-sample games and parts/subassemblies all ready for final assembly. These are production components. From the 11-ply plywood (Stern actually cut back to 7-ply), to the custom plastics, high-res artwork and clearcoated cabinet, solderless coil connectors (and only 2 coil sizes/4 types of coils in the game!) and solidly-mounted wire ramps, full-length playfield rails (Stern's posts are a useless joke!), single-screw GI posts/LEDs, 4-5 LED boards for inserts, and all boards mounted in a metal box that snaps into the bottom of the ab; this game really looks to be built to hold up, with serviceability in mind. I did a full walkthrough of the entire assembly line, station by station, checking out the components and connectors. Mine is not just a "gee whiz, game looks cool!" assessment.

As for the delays, WOZ has been subjected to many modifications over the design/production process. And they have all been improvements/additions beyond the original scope.So WOZ pre-orders aren't complaining about getting more than what they bargained for, although anyone who has requested has received a full refund.

So people with no skin in the game, raising the issue of delayed completion (this from a new company started from scratch just 2 years and a couple of months ago)--sounds like sour grapes to me! And I've played and been "inside" the recent Stern LE offerings: in the same price range, the build quality is crap compared to what I've seen inside WOZ. Feel free to compare when you do a hands-on for both mfrs as well...
 
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I was referring to non-sample games and parts/subassemblies all ready for final assembly. These are production components. From the 11-ply plywood (Stern actually cut back to 7-ply), to the custom plastics, high-res artwork and clearcoated cabinet, solderless coil connectors (and only 2 coil sizes/4 types of coils in the game!) and solidly-mounted wire ramps, full-length playfield rails (Stern's posts are a useless joke!), single-screw GI posts/LEDs, 4-5 LED boards for inserts, and all boards mounted in a metal box that snaps into the bottom of the ab; this game really looks to be built to hold up, with serviceability in mind. I did a full walkthrough of the entire assembly line, station by station, checking out the components and connectors. Mine is not just a "gee whiz, game looks cool!" assessment.

As for the delays, WOZ has been subjected to many modifications over the design/production process. And they have all been improvements/additions beyond the original scope.So WOZ pre-orders aren't complaining about getting more than what they bargained for, although anyone who has requested has received a full refund................................................................................................................................................................................................................











so crimped on spade connectors are going to stay put on coils that fire constantly during game play? the LED light boards?what happens when an LED goes out? also i would like to know if you noticed the backboxes that were being fitted with LCD screens had many nicks in them?ARE they going to send those cabinets out with touchups? I hope Jack succeeds at what he is doing, but if gary stern promised a game that was already a year and three months behind the original delivery promise he would not have a chance on these forums. Its so nice nowadays thart you can get your money back when you have not recieved a product. I could build a pinball machine if given three years,and 3.250,000 of the buyers money up front. This topic has been beat to death and I wish it would just go away. Flame suit ON!

So people with no skin in the game, raising the issue of delayed completion (this from a new company started from scratch just 2 years and a couple of months ago)--sounds like sour grapes to me! And I've played and been "inside" the recent Stern LE offerings: in the same price range, the build quality is crap compared to what I've seen inside WOZ. Feel free to compare when you do a hands-on for both mfrs as well...







............................
 
A few things: I didn't notice dings in backboxes lined up, but I doubt they'll ship damaged cabs. Spade connectors will stay on solidly b/c coils really don't move when firing, and certainly don't put any strain or other force on the connectors. LED boards were redesigned to be better/cheaper/more reliable, which is one of the reasons for shipping delay.

And, the strawman argument about Stern announcing games is ludicrous. COMPLETELY different business model. JJP had to announce early and solicit pre-orders to fund a new startup: hire people, order components, lease and set up a brand-new factory/office, etc. Stern is in the production flow, with vendor credit lines and capital to order parts for the next game, factory and employees in place, etc. Stern STILL often has delays in shipping, even though they don't even announce what the next title is until it is practically ready to ship. Because they don't need to. (What's the next Stern title? Anybody's guess.) And with all this, new Stern games STILL typically ship with woefully incomplete sw, even with no early date announcements.

I may sound like a JJP cheerleader, but I've been distinctly disappointed in the direction Stern has taken in the past several years on their own merits. And I do approve of the innovation and improvements to pinball that JJP is attempting, while Stern is just cutting quality, jacking up prices, relying on fear&scarcity-based LE pre-order marketing, etc. Today's "LE" models at best have the same level of features as the regular ("Pro") games of just a few years ago, yet they've managed to jack up prices over 50% and still sell games. Kudos to their marketing strategy, but I don't think it's good for pinball in the big picture.

P.S. Props to your pin lineup--nice variety!
 
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Again I wish jack great success with his two machines,he was a great host. I supported him by buying two pieces of invisiglass for 600.00. I think it was worth every penny. But I would never buy a new car without test driving it first, I'm glad everyone is happy to take the risk. The games were breaking down as we were playing them, I'm sure it's too early to tell, but I believe there will be breakdowns and it should be expected, it wouldn't make me upset if I bought one of his games and it wasn't perfect,but the collectors out there can be a real pita.
Thanks for the compliment on the collection, it's taken me 8 years to build it.
 
So people with no skin in the game, raising the issue of delayed completion (this from a new company started from scratch just 2 years and a couple of months ago)--sounds like sour grapes to me! And I've played and been "inside" the recent Stern LE offerings: in the same price range, the build quality is crap compared to what I've seen inside WOZ. Feel free to compare when you do a hands-on for both mfrs as well...

Tell you what, I have been inside of the stern factory. 5 WOZ are suppose to be at the TPF, I will make my assessment there where I can actually see and play it. I'll be glad to share my thoughts with ya!
 
I was able to play the game at expo, I dont like the theme, but it is the most impressive pinball machine my hands have touched, I talked with Jack and Clay about it, and he was brutally honest and asked me up front what I did not like, what felt clunky, etc. Say what you all will, but to me, It puts Stern quality to question, and I just purchased a NIB Tron b/c its an awesome game, what he is doing, business model aside, is forcing the player to decide what feels better, and I can tell you first hand its amazing. I cant afford one... but if I could I would probably buy one...
 
I also played it, I don't know how you can say it was superior, it's not complete yet and many of the machines he had at the open house in November broke down. How is that superior?
The way I remember the open house was that we started with 8 machines by the end of the party there were only 4 that were playable. I think the point of that open house was a good faith gesture to let the buyers know there was actually a built game, because so many on the forums were starting rumors that it was a scam. I don't think Jack is out to scam anybody and I do think he's trying to be innovative and build a better product. I'm tired of forums that have posts that are asking or trying to convince the rest of the community that jjp is the next coming.
 
I also played it, I don't know how you can say it was superior, it's not complete yet and many of the machines he had at the open house in November broke down. How is that superior?
The way I remember the open house was that we started with 8 machines by the end of the party there were only 4 that were playable. I think the point of that open house was a good faith gesture to let the buyers know there was actually a built game, because so many on the forums were starting rumors that it was a scam. I don't think Jack is out to scam anybody and I do think he's trying to be innovative and build a better product. I'm tired of forums that have posts that are asking or trying to convince the rest of the community that jjp is the next coming.

I can say its better because I played it in a room next to brand new xmens and acdcs and it felt more solid and of better quality to me. I can say that because the machine I played did not break down and I experienced gameplay that was very innovative. I can say that because I was in a place with 80 other games in our top 100 list and all I wanted to do was play the woz again. So to answer your question " I don't know how you can say its superior"... That is how I can say that, to me it was the best car on that track.....
 
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