Wiring A KIDDIE RIDE HELP!

vintageclub

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I'm trying to help wire up a kiddie ride for a friend. Its an old fiberglass speed boat from the 70s. The motor works great and the soundboard that makes the boat noise works fine as well.

The problem is the timer and relay wiring. I know the timer works fine. When you hit the switch, the relay pulls in for the alotted amount of time, but from there I'm having issues. I know I'm doing something wrong, but it has the hot wire 110V coming in from the wall side and plugged into a post on the relay. The other wire connects to the black/hot wire going to the boat motor, and that goes on the other post of the relay. When you hit the switch, the relay starts buzzing like crazy and emitting blue electrical arc inside it. Obviously its not allowing the current to pass smoothly and keeps pushing away the contact inside the relay.

I'm sure there's an obvious solution, but this is the only time I've worked on one of these and could use some help.
 
Pictures

Can you take some pics and I will help you, I'm actually doing one today but mine is more modern and easier. But I have wired about a dozen of these and they are usually pretty simple.
 
Yeah, I've already replaced the relay. The relay is good. I don't have a photo, don't know when I'll go back over there, but I'll post one or a diagram of it. Thanks.
 
Does the timer wiring have anything to do with the operation other than just turning the relay on and off? It works just fine as is. When I hardwire the 2 HOTS together the thing fires up just fine. Its just that relay trying to reject the two making contact. Its a brand new relay, but the old relay is doing the same thing. I don't know what the original wiring looked like because it was taken apart before I got to it. The original culprit we found late, which was an 8Amp inline fuse holder that was inserted on the hotwire coming in and was hidden inside the coinbox post. So, now I just need to get this relay wired up as normal.



1. The wiring comes in from the wall and meets at a 2 plug outlet mounted on the bottom of the coinbox post.
2. From there, the ground splits and goes to the motor.
3. The neutral splits over to the motor, and also up the coinbox post and into one side of the timer.
4. The hot wire goes up the coinbox post, into the timer, and also to the relay to provide power to the coil and daisy chains down to the main lug on one side.
5. The middle lug heads down the post and feeds the hot side of the boat motor.
 

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somebody here was selling some new kiddie ride timers/relay boxes that also has mp3 playback capability.. in your case you could record that original sound even and save it as a mp3.

That would modernize everything but the motor. I think those boxes even control the lights
 
I posted a thumbnail diagram of how its currently wired. Can anyone look at this and tell me if anything jumps out as being abnormal? I know the motor works, the inline fuse is good, the relay pulls in, the timer works, and the wiring is good, so this relay seems to be the culprit, but I don't know what else to do.
 
Maybe flip it, run the neutral thru relay. Perhaps flip at plug end (assuming it has been replaced)
I don't know, throwing out random ideas.
Is the relay rated for this set up? Maybe the previous relay was wrong
 
Yeah, I've tried all possible wiring scenarios and haven't gotten a thing. This relay is the same as the original, and everything worked fine until the boat got moved from one location to the other.
 
It's very hard to determine how the game is wired just from your description and a diagram of only one of the components.

But, just from the picture you posted of the relay and the description, it sounds like the relay is wired wrong:

If the top left terminal in the relay picture comes from the timer, this should already be the "hot" lead switched on from the timer. That means the top right terminal in the relay picture should not be "hot" also. Remove the daisy chained "hot" wire from the top right terminal and connect the top right terminal straight to neutral. The "hot" wire that was daisy chained should still go to the other teminal on the relay (I think the third terminal from the bottom, on the right side of the relay, hard to tell from your drawing).

BUT, make sure the wire coming from the timer to the top left terminal of the relay is being switched from the "hot" lead at the timer. You should never switch your neutral leads on a 110V AC circuit.

It would be easier to determine how it should be wired if you included information on the timer (make, model #, etc) and how the coin switch is wired.
 
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I'll print off your posting, Nedc, and go check things out, maybe snap some photos. We need this thing out of the way because it takes up as much floor space as 3 games, but can't move it until its fixed. I didn't get to it until the wiring was undone and then redone, so I have no clue what's up with it. Its fun to learn some mechanical stuff, though, and not just video. Thanks.
 
Sorry for the crappy drawing. Depending on the type of timer, here is an example wiring diagram:
 

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I looked over your diagram and thats the exact way I have it currently wired. Confusing.....

The boat turns on when I just wire the relay as normally closed and let the juice flow through the relay contacts. But, in normal wiring, why would the relay not hold closed when the timer is activated? It keeps rattling that arm between NC and NO at a record pace and buzzes loudly with blue arc. I've tried 2 different relays of the same spec, and they do the same thing.

I don't expect a dead on answer to any of this, but I appreciate everyone's consultation. Its good to know I was on the right path.
 
I looked over your diagram and thats the exact way I have it currently wired. Confusing.....

The boat turns on when I just wire the relay as normally closed and let the juice flow through the relay contacts. But, in normal wiring, why would the relay not hold closed when the timer is activated? It keeps rattling that arm between NC and NO at a record pace and buzzes loudly with blue arc. I've tried 2 different relays of the same spec, and they do the same thing.

I don't expect a dead on answer to any of this, but I appreciate everyone's consultation. Its good to know I was on the right path.

I have never worked on one of these but the diagram is nothing but a simple 110 AC relay circuit.
Sounds like the contacts in the timer are bad or the coil in the relay is bad.
What happens if you take the two wires off the timer which engage the relay coil and connect them together? This should energize the relay directly and run the motor. It it runs that way then it's the contacts in the timer and if it's still jumping in and out them the coil in the relay is bad.
 
I looked over your diagram and thats the exact way I have it currently wired. Confusing.....

Your previous description doesn't describe it wired as my drawing. In my drawing the left side of the relay coil is the switched "hot" from the timer and the right side is wired to neutral. Your description has the right side wired to "hot". Double check your wiring compared to the drawing.

A relay will cycle super fast as you are describing if the relay coil is wired directly to power through it's own normally closed contact. This sounds exactly like what is happening with your relay. The "hot" should not be wired directly to either of the relay coil terminals.
 
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I just went down and worked on this stupid thing some more. I cross-checked everything per your diagram and its all in order, but still doing the same thing. Its all very simple... the coil pulls in, the positive wire going to the relay makes contact with the boat's positive wire, and then its supposed to fire up. But, that's obviously not happening.

Just a question......... when I hardwire this thing directly, it starts up, but it draws alot of amperage and the lights in the whole place dim because they're all on the same circuit (just a big not-to-code storage space). When the relay is in the circuit, thats when I have problems and the lights all go out while this thing does what I've already described. The power is coming from an outlet about 150 feet or more away through about 3 thin extension cords and a power strip. Could this relay be just enough of a tipping point in the circuit that there's not enough amps to start it with the relay involved? I'll have to relocate the whole boat to plug directly into a wall outlet and see, but could this be an issue worth moving the whole thing for?


To justify my time and brighten my spirit, I got a dead Ms. Pac-Man up and going while I was down there, so I could hold my head up somewhat proud as I walked away.
*sigh*
 
I'm sure the extension cords aren't helping matters. You could Check the voltage at the end of the extension cord with nothing running, then hardwire the motor and check the voltage with it running to see how many volts you are dropping due to the extension cords.
 
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You say you double checked the wiring to the drawing I posted. You never said if you changed anything from your original wiring that you first described in this thread. If you did not change anything, then it is NOT wired the same as the drawing I posted. You originally said one of the relay contact wires was "Daisey chained" to the right relay coil terminal. The drawing I posted shows neither side of the relay contact directly connected to the relay coil. Please clarify if you changed the wiring from your original description. If you have, then I would now suspect you are dropping too much voltage via the extension cords.
 
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If it is indeed wired correctly, then this is what is happening: Nothing energized, no voltage drop, relay pulls in fine. Motor starts, higher current when starting, voltage drops along extension cords, not enough voltage to hold in relay, relay drops out, motor deenergizes. Motor no longer causing high voltage drop, relay has enough voltage to pull in and reenergize motor. This all happens super fast, so the motor is almost continuously drawing full starting current and dimming your lights. When you hardwire the motor, the lights will initially dim, but you're allowing the motor to get up to full speed, the starting current subsides, and the voltage drop lessens. You might be able to test this theory without moving the machine by jumpering the contact with a heavy gauge jumper until the motor is up to speed then removing the jumper to see if it stays running. Sorry for all the posts and typing errors, posting from my phone.
 
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