Williams/United Epsilon Shuffle Alley HELP PLEASE

cjs001

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I am trying to get this game back and working for someone, I thought I had all the issues dealt with but after about a half dozen plays on flash the flash release coil is cooked crispy. I put in a new coil since the last one was cooked and figured it was age that finally got to it. The original coil that was on the flash unit was a z-30P-1600, I replaced it with a new one same model from Pinball Resource. What could be causing this to burn up so fast? The coil barely gets to rest during flash so its constantly energized and holding up the lock bar. The game is a hour away so hoping to have an idea how to resolve it on my next drive up to it. I'll try to post of picture of the sad "new" coil.
 

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thats the right coil, i believe. to be a hold coil that wont burn, it needs to be at least 30 ohms or it will draw too much current. momentary coils are 3-10 ohms. you are also dealing with 50 volts, not the usual 30. check the resistance of the next one you buy. you may need to add more resistance to the circuit. a ghetto way to be to just add another coil in series, maybe a 10 ohm coil. you can also you a resistor, but it would need to be a good 10 watts. a coil had plenty of copper, wont burn. too much resistance and it wont pull in , but in only lifts that little pawl, nothing strong needed there.

you can hook the new coil right to common and the 50 volt on the transformer, it should not get hot, maybe slightly warm. if it does, the only way to reduce the current is with more resistance in the circuit.

there are other close coils on the game that arent hold coils, so that strikes me as odd. ohm them out too and see what they are. anything with 20-30 and 1600-1800 will be close.
 
thats the right coil, i believe. to be a hold coil that wont burn, it needs to be at least 30 ohms or it will draw too much current. momentary coils are 3-10 ohms. you are also dealing with 50 volts, not the usual 30. check the resistance of the next one you buy. you may need to add more resistance to the circuit. a ghetto way to be to just add another coil in series, maybe a 10 ohm coil. you can also you a resistor, but it would need to be a good 10 watts. a coil had plenty of copper, wont burn. too much resistance and it wont pull in , but in only lifts that little pawl, nothing strong needed there.

you can hook the new coil right to common and the 50 volt on the transformer, it should not get hot, maybe slightly warm. if it does, the only way to reduce the current is with more resistance in the circuit.

there are other close coils on the game that arent hold coils, so that strikes me as odd. ohm them out too and see what they are. anything with 20-30 and 1600-1800 will be close.
Thank you!
I want to say I did check the ohm on the new coil before soldering it in and I think it was 19/20ohm. I like the idea of using a resistor, little cleaner fix. Question is do I solder it across the coil lugs?
Something like this?
https://tubedepot.com/products/10-w...H5FZRcVtF8JRuWH8Sa50hUpD1c5sMjwBoCWAQQAvD_BwE
 
solder nothing across the lugs. it has to go in series with the coil. from a coil wire to the resistor , then the other end to the coil. a 10 watt resistor wont cut it. 50 volts at 20 ohms draws 125 watts. its funny, but that just doesnt seem to be the right coil. i know on pinball games with hold coils ( at 30 volts) , the coils ohm out around 200. ive never seen that coil burn, so ive had no reason to ohm one out. i have a 1958 united bowler, but to get it away from the wall to test the coil is a nightmare, too much stuff in the way. bottom line, to draw less current, the resistance has to increase. 40 ohms would draw 62 watts. of course, less draw means less coil strength, but the coil doesnt pull very hard, so it will be ok. you may have to experiment with increasing the resistance. a added coil in series, just doing nothing, will add resistance. ufly, but should work.
 
another thought. you can buy those 10 watt resistors in 300 ohms. if you connect 2 of those resistors in parallel, you will half the resistance, but double the wattage they can handle. 2 300 ohm resistors doubled up on parallel would give you 150 ohms at 20 watts. hook the doubled up resistor from a coil wire to the coil, and you will have about 170 ohms. that will get you down to 14 watts, under the 20 the doubled up resistors can handle. then its just a matter of will the coil pull in to release the motor. you will have to experiment, so buy a mix of those resistors, they are cheap enough. you want it to pull in and hold, but not get hot. a little warm is ok, . make sure you solder the resistors together, you want a good connection. twist isnt good enough. twist is ok for testing, but solder when done. if 170 ohm cant pull in the coil , drop the resistance, but remember the wattage will go up. you want to stay under 20 watts.

this is your friend:
http://www.ohmslawcalculator.com/ohms-law-calculator
 
solder nothing across the lugs. it has to go in series with the coil. from a coil wire to the resistor , then the other end to the coil. a 10 watt resistor wont cut it. 50 volts at 20 ohms draws 125 watts. its funny, but that just doesnt seem to be the right coil. i know on pinball games with hold coils ( at 30 volts) , the coils ohm out around 200. ive never seen that coil burn, so ive had no reason to ohm one out. i have a 1958 united bowler, but to get it away from the wall to test the coil is a nightmare, too much stuff in the way. bottom line, to draw less current, the resistance has to increase. 40 ohms would draw 62 watts. of course, less draw means less coil strength, but the coil doesnt pull very hard, so it will be ok. you may have to experiment with increasing the resistance. a added coil in series, just doing nothing, will add resistance. ufly, but should work.

Thanks again. Sorry but my knowledge electrically is still weak, been learning this hobby slowly for 2 yrs. Everything I fixed on the game was either mechanical issues or switches not gapped easy. This problem I struggle with, so I apologize for redundant questions. If I were to try using a resistor instead of an additional coil, what size resistor would I want to try. I don't understand which wattage rating I would want to use. The resistor is appealing to me to try bc I can buy a couple different ratings and try them until either the coil doesn't get hot and or isn't strong enough anymore to lift the pawl. That way I can hopefully get a fix with only one more trip. Those darn little coils are $10 a pop so don't want to have to keep buying them.
 
What coil number does the schematic specify?

Almost positive it was z-30p-1600, the schematics unfortunately are with the game, I shot the guy a text and asked for him to snap some photos of it and send them to me. The sticker in the back of the game that identified the flash motor, had on it the coil part number also. Which was z-30p-1600, but I know there are discrepancies with schematics and whats marked in the machine sometimes.
 
i looked at a few williams/united schematics, they all listed that number
 
i looked at a few williams/united schematics, they all listed that number

New coils came in today and ran them right to the meter, they both are registering the same resistance.
 

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well, 29 is about 30% higher than 20, so thats a start. measure the hold coil, see what you get, and try to add resistor(s) in series to up the resistance . you will have to measure the new resistance from one coil lug to the end of the resistor on the other lug( not the lug). id shoot for 100 and see if the coil works, and gets hot. remember, 2 10 watt resistorsw in parallel will give to 20 watt capaciry, but half the ohms, 2 100 ohm in parallel will be a 50 ohm resistor, at sum of the wattage of each resistor
 
well, 29 is about 30% higher than 20, so thats a start. measure the hold coil, see what you get, and try to add resistor(s) in series to up the resistance . you will have to measure the new resistance from one coil lug to the end of the resistor on the other lug( not the lug). id shoot for 100 and see if the coil works, and gets hot. remember, 2 10 watt resistorsw in parallel will give to 20 watt capaciry, but half the ohms, 2 100 ohm in parallel will be a 50 ohm resistor, at sum of the wattage of each resistor

Was able to run out today and work on the game. The resistance of the hold coil resistance measured 85 ohms. I swapped out the coil and first tested 2-200ohm resistors in parallel, the coil works and was starting to get a little warm, the resistors on the other hand were getting to hot to touch. I tried 2-250ohm resistors next same problem, they were getting really hot. I didn't feel with as hot as they were getting it was going to be a lasting fix. So I was poking around the back door and noticed a switch that wasn't in the normal position as denoted by the notation next to it. I tested the voltage and it was turned so that almost 60 volts was going to the coils, High Tap I think it was marked as on transformer. I put it back to the normal position which set it back to just about 50 volts going to the coils from the transformer. After I did that and tested again with the 2-200ohm resistors the coil wasn't even really warming up and the resistors where getting warm but not so hot you couldn't touch them. So I soldering those in place on the coil. I played the game it did seem just a smidge sluggish with the voltage decrease but it otherwise worked accordingly. The owner left the schematics at his other house so I wasn't able to get good photos of them. First picture is of the switch after I turned it back to its normal position. I am hoping that wraps up the issues on the game for now. Thanks again for you input and guidance!!
 

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