Williams System 6 Blackout blowing fuse

[chuckrcheese]

I appreciate the effort. I didn't know the point of the test was to see if a particular solenoid would blow the fuse. I ran the test quite a few times yesterday after it randomly popped jthe fuse on powering up, and it didn't blow the fuse.

I hate intermittent electrical problems on cars (I'm an auto tech) because you have trouble re-creating what caused the issue. But in this case, whatever it is, seems to be only present on powering up. Even if the fuse blowing issue isn't due to the 40 pin connector, I'm still going to fix that.

no the point isnt, but I was wondering if it was - mabe it would pop and say what one. but it wasnt that easy.
oh well
high voltage pops but something has to pull it and something has to take it.
I like working in these.
cheers

 

[THE COUNT]

So in you guys opinions, could the connector between the driver board and the MPU be causeing the F2 fuse to blow, since it is obviously in need of replacement, causing strange issues with only minor movement?

 

[chuckrcheese]

So in you guys opinions, could the connector between the driver board and the MPU be causeing the F2 fuse to blow, since it is obviously in need of replacement, causing strange issues with only minor movement?

it could if the power is on and theres a cold solder or bad broken solder on the board.
someone here may have seen this and can add something, without the machine here and using the scope on it I cant say only guesses. these arent like cars its not good to wiggle wires with the power on, it may pop chips - diodes - caps and such dvm are good for this.
keep lookin you'll find it.
cheers

 

[kencinder]

The blanking signal travels across that connector, if it's held low long enough by it's pin not making the greatest of contact...it can and will lock a coil/coils on, and blow the fuse.

My Sys 4 boards are out for repair, and this was an issue(I watched it happen with a probe)...though the root of it lies elsewhere in that I have problems that make that a secondary issue/effect. I sent em off to another member cause I simply don't have the time...new baby etc

 

[THE COUNT]

Well, I'd like to replace those male and female connectors to prevent any more problems. Tonight while playing, the ball eject solenoid on the right-hand side of the PF wouldn't work, then it would work. Not sure if that is a leaf switch problem or also related to the connector issue, as it never happened before today.

 

[chuckrcheese]

Well, I'd like to replace those male and female connectors to prevent any more problems. Tonight while playing, the ball eject solenoid on the right-hand side of the PF wouldn't work, then it would work. Not sure if that is a leaf switch problem or also related to the connector issue, as it never happened before today.

good, write down what happened and all you know it helps with useing the schematic, leaf should be like those on a car in the distrib. the closer the contact the bigger the spark, faster they burn. as far as the connector, try soldering the bottoms of the pins just to redo the connection dont use any more solder if you dont have to. ( I am asuming you know how to do this )
cheers

 

[HHaase]

What normally happens when you remove these two boards and reinstall them? I'm assuming not what happened here. I guess I should deffinetly replace the male connectors on the MPU, but where do you get those header-style pins from?

Unless there is physical damage to the male pins on the CPU board, there's rarely need to replace those. At the very least though, resoldering them is pretty much mandatory at this point. Don't just re-flow them either, get all the old solder off and apply fresh. However, many times they are ground down too far on the backside, and there isn't enough pin to give a strong solder connection. If that's the case, yeah, replace them.

The female side, you said there is physical gaps that you can see around the pins? If so, replace it.

Personally, I find more issues with cracked solder joints on the CPU side than bad connectors on the driver board side....but both do happen.

Best source I can recommend for these is Ed at Great Plains Electronics. He stocks almost everything you could need for those boards, including the extra-long pins for the CPU board that are otherwise impossible to find.

It is very possible that this connection could cause your blown fuse. If it screws with the data going into the solenoid PIA chip and locks on all the coils at once.... POP there goes the fuse.

I don't remember with blackout if it still has the good pin style molex connectors or the evil IDC style. Either way, get familiar with crimping new pins on the wiring.... you'll likely be doing it a lot.

-Hans

 

[smalltownguy2]

Jameco stocks the female connector too.

Here's the link:

http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&productId=792984

While you're at it though, you may want to purchase some other spare parts to make the shipping worth your trouble. I'm restoring a Firepower pin, and my recent order included:

35991 @ DIODE,SIL REC,1N4004,1A,
38421 @ TRANSISTOR,2N4401,NPN,GP
40002 IC,EPROM,2716,5V
40096 IC,EPROM,2732,5V
792984 156 KK PCB BTM ENTRY TFT 10CKT
1094723 3 LD PLASTIC W/EXPOSED HEATSNK

Might as well get fuses there too, if you can't get them from work cheaper.

 

[THE COUNT]

Well, the current plan is to either resolder or replace the male header pins on the MPU board, resolder all and replace 2-3 female terminals on the driver board, and check both boards out for any solder/trace issues.

The MPU also has some battery corrosion above the battery holder, which has been replaced. Any suggestions on the best way to clean this? I've done Neo Geo motherboard battery replacements, and I just used a baking soda/water mix with a toothbrush. Then rinsed it off with 90% iso. alcohol. Will this method work on this board?

And Blackout still has the old IDC style connectors WTF were they thinking!

 

[HHaase]

The MPU also has some battery corrosion above the battery holder, which has been replaced. Any suggestions on the best way to clean this? I've done Neo Geo motherboard battery replacements, and I just used a baking soda/water mix with a toothbrush. Then rinsed it off with 90% iso. alcohol. Will this method work on this board?

And Blackout still has the old IDC style connectors WTF were they thinking!

Actually, baking soda is going the wrong direction. Alkaline battery corrosion is a base, not an acid.... so you need a mild acid to neutralize it. Use vinegar instead of baking soda.

-Hans

 

[examiner]

I think the generally accepted home method for dealing with battery corrosion (if you can't bead blast the board) is a 50/50 mixture of white vinegar and water - scrub with toothbrush - rinse with plenty of clean water - final rinse with alcohol if you want.

 

[THE COUNT]

Great, thanks for the tip. Guess I'd did that wrong in the past, oops!

 

[smalltownguy2]

And Blackout still has the old IDC style connectors WTF were they thinking!

They were thinking they could make more money if they used them. Which was great for a few years, until the connectors begin to fail.

Now us home use collectors have to replace them all with new connectors. I have the mouser part numbers for these connectors, headers and Trifuricon pins if you need them.

 

[THE COUNT]

They were thinking they could make more money if they used them. Which was great for a few years, until the connectors begin to fail.

Now us home use collectors have to replace them all with new connectors. I have the mouser part numbers for these connectors, headers and Trifuricon pins if you need them.

I would like the part numbers for them for sure. I might as well get that out of the way as well.

 

[smalltownguy2]

Here's my shopping cart with Mouser. Or, you can read below for part numbers.

http://www.mouser.com:80/ProjectManager/ProjectDetail.aspx?AccessID=6f4c890d9e

The Trifuricon pins are 538-08-52-0113. Get like 200 of em

The headers are of varying lengths, but you can order longer and cut to size.

538-26-48-1105 is the 10 pin header (closest I could get to 9 pin)

538-26-48-1185 is the 18 pin header (I am cutting this one in half to use for my 9 pin headers)

538-26-48-1155 - 15 pin header

538-09-50-3161 - 16 position plug

538-09-50-3121 - 12 position plug

538-09-50-3091 - 9 position plug (this is the one that Williams boards have the most of)

Crimper for use with the Trifuricon pins:

538-WHT1919P ($15.00)

Also, don't forget to get the polarization keys to keep you from plugging in the wrong way (these were not in my shopping cart to begin with):

538-15-04-9209

 

[chuckrcheese]

you may want to check the BR2 bridger rectifier that would blow f2 on power up and randomly.
cheers

 

[THE COUNT]

you may want to check the BR2 bridger rectifier that would blow f2 on power up and randomly.
cheers

I did remove this rectifier and check it as best as I know how. I used the Gorgar manual, which shows it to be a series of diodes. So I checked it with my DMM on diodes test and each combination of prongs read the same, going in the correct direction, if that makes sense. If I tested it wrong, let me know and I'll recheck.

BTW, the game has not tripped a 2 amp thermal breaker, which replicates a 2 amp slow blow fuse (for monitor chassis repair work), in the past two days. There was alot of on/off switching and playing. If it continues to not trip this breaker, I will assume the cause was/is in the 40 pin connector, which I reseated two days ago.

Also, Smalltownguy2, check your PM's.

 

[chuckrcheese]

great!
glad you got it - hope it holds,
cheers!

 

[HHaase]

I did remove this rectifier and check it as best as I know how. I used the Gorgar manual, which shows it to be a series of diodes. So I checked it with my DMM on diodes test and each combination of prongs read the same, going in the correct direction, if that makes sense. If I tested it wrong, let me know and I'll recheck.

BTW, the game has not tripped a 2 amp thermal breaker, which replicates a 2 amp slow blow fuse (for monitor chassis repair work), in the past two days. There was alot of on/off switching and playing. If it continues to not trip this breaker, I will assume the cause was/is in the 40 pin connector, which I reseated two days ago.

Also, Smalltownguy2, check your PM's.

Just to throw the question out there, were you using Slow-Blow fuses for the solenoids? Regular fast acting fuses would pop pretty quick.

-Hans

 

[THE COUNT]

Just to throw the question out there, were you using Slow-Blow fuses for the solenoids? Regular fast acting fuses would pop pretty quick.

-Hans

Yes, I was using slow blow fuses. When I bought the game, knowing it had this issue, it had a fast blow fuse in it. After seeing the schematics for Gorgar I realized it was supposed to be a slow blow. I changed it, but it still blew it a day or so later.