Williams System 6 Blackout blowing fuse

THE COUNT

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I recently picked up my first pin, Blackout, from a fellow KLOVer. I purchased it with this issue and I need some help.

The solenoid fuse, F2, blows when powering up the game.... sometimes. It is very random and it can go for a couple of days with alot of powering on and off before it blows the fuse again. I originally thought I had it fixed, it had a 2.5amp fast blow fuse installed in F2. I replaced it with a slow blow like it should have and it took another day to blow it.

I have reseated all connectors on the boards and the ones going from the backbox into the bottom.

I have ohmed all solenoids, they read 4 4.2 ohms.

I have visually checked for any burnt wires, bare wires and any other suspicious looking wires.

Again, this only happens when I power the maching on, not while playing. Also, it may not make a difference, but when the fuse blows the master display lcd and the lcd to the right of it, are dim and kinda flickering. But if you turn the game off and power it back on this goes away.

Where should I start? And remember I don't have a Blackout manual, I'm using a Gorgar since it's the closest I can find to a Blackout manual.
 
While you may have thrown a multimeter on the coils, have you VISUALLY inspected all of the shafts and sleeves?
If they're very dirty or worn, you can wind up with one that sticks intermittently and at one point...long enough to blow a fuse.

Shafts should be clean, using 99% Isopropanol or other suitable suggestions regarding pins(That's just what I use) and move freely in the sleeve.
Sleeves should be clean and move freely inside the coil, not be stuck right in there unable to move.

Since it's working for awhile, I wouldn't say you have a board problem...though it could very well be a driver transistor eventually getting too hot.

If you haven't replaced the 40 pin connector between the MPU/Driver board, I would do so. Very problematic point of failure for all sorts of things if the original connector is still in place.
 
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While you may have thrown a multimeter on the coils, have you VISUALLY inspected all of the shafts and sleeves?
If they're very dirty or worn, you can wind up with one that sticks intermittently and at one point...long enough to blow a fuse.

Shafts should be clean, using 99% Isopropanol or other suitable suggestions regarding pins(That's just what I use) and move freely in the sleeve.
Sleeves should be clean and move freely inside the coil, not be stuck right in there unable to move.

Since it's working for awhile, I wouldn't say you have a board problem...though it could very well be a driver transistor eventually getting too hot.

If you haven't replaced the 40 pin connector between the MPU/Driver board, I would do so. Very problematic point of failure for all sorts of things if the original connector is still in place.

I have not cleaned the coils shafts. I will do this and see if there is any change. Thanks for the suggestion.

The game will work for literally hours of playing without ever blowing the fuse. I left it running in Game Over mode for quite awhile the other night and checked for any obviously hot transistor on the driver board, but found none. Some of what I assume are the solenoid transistors (on the bottom left of driver board) have been replaced, prior to my owning it.

Could you please direct me to the 40 pin connector you are reffering to in my pic :) I was told by the previous owner that this connector was replaced, but I don't even know which connector we are talking about.
 

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The 40 pin connector, connects the MPU and Driver board together. The 2 boards in the left of the head, driver board sits overtop of the MPU by way of that connector.

If it doesn't look new, it isn't...I can't tell from that picture, looks like the female connector on the driver board is new, but if the pin headers on the MPU aren't then they should be. The old ones are likely oxidized, and nice shiny new ones will rule out problems with connection troubles between the two boards. New ones are also square, making better contact than the old round ones.
 
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there are also 2 caps near f2 c13 and c14 . I would also lean towards edge connector ground around 3j2-2.
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I thought about replacing those two caps and whatever that VR1 is. Worth a shot I guess.

I checked connector 3j2 for any signs of being hot or burnt insided, especially at 3j2-2, the ground. The connectors were clean and looked good.
 
When it blows the fuse, does the whole machine shut down too? Or just the fuse goes out?

Also visually inspect the coil diodes. With the machine turned OFF, give them a quick tug, look for any that are burned out.

-Hans
 
When it blows the fuse, does the whole machine shut down too? Or just the fuse goes out?

Also visually inspect the coil diodes. With the machine turned OFF, give them a quick tug, look for any that are burned out.

-Hans

The machine does not shut down. I have it set on freeplay (maxd credits = 0) and it will say "launch mission" and go into game mode (inserts stop strobing) with it's music and everything. It just won't return the ball to the shooter and non of the solenoids work. The master LCD and the one to the right of it are dim and kinda screwy looking, but after cycling the maching off then back on (without replacing the fuse) they look normal again.

I gave all the diodes a light pull and none were broken.
 
The 40 pin connector, connects the MPU and Driver board together. The 2 boards in the left of the head, driver board sits overtop of the MPU by way of that connector.

If it doesn't look new, it isn't...I can't tell from that picture, looks like the female connector on the driver board is new, but if the pin headers on the MPU aren't then they should be. The old ones are likely oxidized, and nice shiny new ones will rule out problems with connection troubles between the two boards. New ones are also square, making better contact than the old round ones.

O.k. thanks for clearing that up. I looked closely at this connector with the boards still installed. There was a bit of a gap between the the boards on the left-hand side. I pushed the female board in while supporting the rear pcb, when I turned the maching back on, all I got was GI lights, nothing else :(

So I removed the two boards to check it out. The female connector on the driver board is new. The male connector on the other board is not. Some of the pins were slightly corroded. So I cleaned them off with a tiny brass brush and re-installed them. When I turned in on, it was in the setting mode, like I had pressed the advance button in the coin door to make adjustments. I did a factory reset, but it seemed to still be stuck. I moved around on the connector a bit and turned it back on and it was working.

What normally happens when you remove these two boards and reinstall them? I'm assuming not what happened here. I guess I should deffinetly replace the male connectors on the MPU, but where do you get those header-style pins from?
 
Pin part places will have em, but likely you'd pay way more in shipping for just those.
I would imagine you could get them from any electronics place near you, or maybe even Radio Shack(They suck here now though).

You want 5x .156" 8 position male locking header

Or you could post a WTB here and someone likely has some
 
Pin part places will have em, but likely you'd pay way more in shipping for just those.
I would imagine you could get them from any electronics place near you, or maybe even Radio Shack(They suck here now though).

You want 5x .156" 8 position male locking header

Or you could post a WTB here and someone likely has some

What would the female connector part be? There were a couple of them that had quite a large gap in them, which could cause connection issues.
 
Yep, I have this operators manual. I wish I could find the full manual with schematics :( But for now the Gorgar manual is very helpfull. I just need some ideas of where to look and what to check. Maybe someone has seen this issue before?

The Williams Flipper manual is also worth getting and printing out. You can get it at http://www.firepowerpinball.com/ along with schematics, board layouts for Firepower, but they work equally as well for Blackout. When I was troubleshooting my own Blackout last Autumn, they were invaluable.

Another good resource is (was?) Marvins repair site for system 3-7 http://www.pinrepair.com/sys37/index.htm Links off that page seem to require a password, but if you can use google, you should be able to find cached pages if you're in a hurry.

About the issue with the fuse, could it be a bad fuse holder?

Also, maybe it doesn't matter much, but what voltage rating is on the fuse you're using in F2?
 
About the issue with the fuse, could it be a bad fuse holder?

Also, maybe it doesn't matter much, but what voltage rating is on the fuse you're using in F2?

The fuse holder is very clean, no corrosion. And the voltage on the slow blow is 250v. I have checked the voltage at the fuse while running and it is 28v like it should be. But this is while it is working, not when it blows it, that is really too random to measure.
 
have you tried self diagnostics switch?
also if you dont have this it says blackout on it on the sound card
http://www.pinrepair.com/sys37/s7sch1.pdf

I did not have that document, so thanks!

I tried the solenoid test mode, but all it does is activate each solenoid while displaying the solenoid number on the LCD display. Is there something else I'm missing in the test
 
nope, it would lock up or give an error, I was hopeing it would pop a fuse when it hit a solanoid.
I am looking at my firepower 2 boards and schem.
still lookin.
you'll get it.
intermittion is the hardest to find.
 
nope, it would lock up or give an error, I was hopeing it would pop a fuse when it hit a solanoid.
I am looking at my firepower 2 boards and schem.
still lookin.
you'll get it.
intermittion is the hardest to find.

I appreciate the effort. I didn't know the point of the test was to see if a particular solenoid would blow the fuse. I ran the test quite a few times yesterday after it randomly popped jthe fuse on powering up, and it didn't blow the fuse.

I hate intermittent electrical problems on cars (I'm an auto tech) because you have trouble re-creating what caused the issue. But in this case, whatever it is, seems to be only present on powering up. Even if the fuse blowing issue isn't due to the 40 pin connector, I'm still going to fix that.
 
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