Williams Flash Pinball, I think I'm in Audit mode...

Bullwinkle

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Williams Flash Pinball, I think I'm in Audit mode...

Well, I finally have my first pinball purchase, a Williams Flash. I'm quite excited about it as the playfield is in great shape. So here's where I am. There was a bad -100vdc transistor in the high voltage area of the power supply board, so I replaced that with a new equivalent as they no longer make the SDS-202 transistor (I've been following the repair guide on pinrepair.com...so yes, i crossed the legs). As a precaution, I also did many of the upgrades suggested on pinrepair (replaced the +5/+12 filter capacitor, the smaller diodes in the high voltage area, pin connector at J6). Once completed, I tested the output voltages and got the following:

connector,pin = reading (acceptable range)
J6, pin6 = 12.85vdc (10 to 14vdc)
J6, pins 7 thru 10 = 5.09vdc (4.9 to 5.2vdc)
J5, pin4= 97.62vdc (90 to 105vdc)
J5, pin3= -97.43vdc (-90 to -105vdc)
J4, pins 5 thru 8= 20.23vdc (16 to 20vdc) "a little high"
J3, pins 6 thru 8= 37.65vdc (28 to 38vdc)

The only thing out of line was the J4 connector being a bit high. will that be an issue? What I get is the control display showing 04 00 (and the 4 flickers to an 8) ...I can hit the test switch on the door and the 00 will advance and display 1 will show some random numbers occasionally as the value increases. I flip the toggle switch on the door and the numbers decrease as I hit the test switch.

With the values from the PSB looking ok, i did test points on the CPU board and got the following voltages (didn't have alligator clips, so I couldn't get some of the values when switches are depressed or during that 1 second during bootup)

test point, reading, (expected value)
TP1, 11.04vdc (12v)
TP2, 4.5vdc (5v normal operation, 0v when diagnostic switch depressed(untested))
TP3, .05vdc (should be +5 when interlock closed, 0vdc when interlock open, can I assume interlock was open as I have no idea what that means?)
TP4, 4.97vdc (5vdc normal operation, 0vdc for 1 sec after boot)
TP7, 4.7vdc (4.3vdc when powered, 3.9vdc when off - I have no batteries in(untested))
TP8, 4.93vdc (5vdc normal operation, 0vdc for 1 sec after boot(untested))
TP9, 5.02vdc (5vdc)

The battery area looks very clean, but I intend to remove the housing and verify no corrosion has occured.

TP1 is unregulated so I'm not sure what that value should be or if it's in the proper range. TP2 was low and TP4 was high. Should I check the power coming into the CPU board at the connector to verify the power is making it through the cabling correctly? or does it seem like the CPU is in need of some chips/repair that is beyond what I should attempt (being my first pin and all). I have no problems soldering pcbs so this may be a repair I can handle. (I work on arcade pcbs and monitors as well as computer based time and access control devices, so I'm good with a soldering station)

In everyone's experience, is this something I should be able to correct eventually or should I send them out? If I send them out, is there someone in here that works on these? I'm confident my power supply board is fine based on my readings, so it would be my CPU, interconnect and possibly control display.

Thanks

Tom
 
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P&J's Pinball in Culver City Ca can probably fix those boards or tell you who can do it reliably and at a reasonable cost.

(310) 391-2969

Good luck.
 
Do you have batteries in the machine? If so, have you verified the voltage is actually getting to the 5101 RAM when the game is off?

That series of game will do weird things if you try to boot them with no batteries. "04 00" on the credit display is an indicator of this problem.

A quick way to get past the "04 00" is to turn the game on, wait a few seconds then turn it off and on again quickly (but not too quick). It might take a couple of attempts but my parents have been using a flash machine with no batteries for years (don't ask) and they always get the "04 00" when they turn it on.

Or just install some batteries. haha

Hopefully it's a simple fix for you :)

EDIT: Voltages look fine to me. If my original suggestions don't solve the problem I would start by separating the MPU and driver board, clean the male connectors with some fine sand paper and reflow the solder on those connectors on both boards. This is a temporary solution. The interconnect connectors should be replaced as part of a full restoration of the machine but that will usually get you by for a while. Assuming you actually have a problem with that connector.
 
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Lindsey, thanks for the help. I do not have batteries in it...but I certainly can throw a few in for a test anyway. I did try the off/on thing (read that somewhere), but maybe I did it too quickly. As much as I'd like the game up and running 'yesterday' :) (ie: sending the boards to someone to fix for me) , I really want to try to get it running myself so any tips are greatly appreciated.
 
Lindsey, thanks for the help. I do not have batteries in it...but I certainly can throw a few in for a test anyway. I did try the off/on thing (read that somewhere), but maybe I did it too quickly. As much as I'd like the game up and running 'yesterday' :) (ie: sending the boards to someone to fix for me) , I really want to try to get it running myself so any tips are greatly appreciated.

I won't be surprised if it boots when you put the batteries in. You will definitely get "04 00" with no batteries.
 
Lindsey, unfortunately batteries didnt change anything..so i decided to pull the mpu and the driver board to redo the pin headers and (in the words of my son) OMG! SOMEONE attempted to resolder the pin headers on the back of the MPU..and they need to have their soldering iron confiscated and their license to solder revoked! Not only did they leave some of the joints cold (solder blobs), they had solder bleeding across exposed traces and I was able to verify that they created at least one short. Now I'm looking at the backside of the MPU and there is a jumper wire between pin 1 of J3 and pin 1 of J4. I'm looking at the schematics and cant figure out why it's here.

Anyone know why someone would do this? I do know that I do NOT have a wire in the connector for neither pin 1 of J3 nor pin 1 of J4, so it apparently only connects the traces at those locationsand I'm not sure why.
 
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OK... I'm in true audit mode now. I have 04 00 and 0486 2 in display 1

previously I had nothing in the initial bootup of display 1 (i'd get some random numbers as I stepped through the test button, but nothing on the first screen) AND the 04 would flicker between 04 and 08 and the 4 or 8 was brighter than the rest of the digits... now all is uniform brightness (I think that's progress :))

Installed some rechargable batteries but it didnt get me out of audit. Tried the quick off/on and nothing either. But at least I made a little progress and I feel better about the connectors / pin headers as they obviously made a difference.

Think I'll recheck voltages to note the differences (if any) and then try to trace voltage down the lines to the different areas. Any suggestions are always welcome
 
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Installed some rechargable batteries but it didnt get me out of audit. Tried the quick off/on and nothing either. But at least I made a little progress and I feel better about the connectors / pin headers as they obviously made a difference.


Replace those batteries with standard alkaline batteries. There is no way for them to be recharged, and a good set of alkaline batteries will last a year or two.

Check the schematic for that wire on J3-J4

You could have an issue with the proms, I have had bad proms on games that old, or the sockets could be bad as well. Pinrepair has information on that as well.

Mike
 
Replace those batteries with standard alkaline batteries. There is no way for them to be recharged, and a good set of alkaline batteries will last a year or two.

Check the schematic for that wire on J3-J4

You could have an issue with the proms, I have had bad proms on games that old, or the sockets could be bad as well. Pinrepair has information on that as well.

Mike

Mike,

I did just read the part in pinrepair's guide about the diode D17 stopping the voltage from going into the batteries while the machine is on, So i realized at that point that they need to be alkaline. i have put new Duracell Alkaline batteries in place, but not getting anything different at current.

Power from the battery holder to the D17 diode (on the non banded side) is at 3.43vdc (should be between 3.9 and 4.3vdc) and the reading from the banded side of the diode is 4.75vdc (which is in range). When I shut off the power, the non banded side of the D17 diode is at 2.66vdc, the banded side is 2.81vdc and pin 22 on IC19 (5101 CMOS RAM) is 2.38vdc (same as the reading at TP7). Those 3 readings being well below the acceptable range of 3.9 to 4.3vdc.

I am not getting any voltage at the CPU chip (pin 8) when the machine is off, so D17 is doing it's job there. I'm thinking I should replace the battery holder, or at least resolder the connections as it looks quite new and there seems to be no battery acid damage on the board.


EDIT: OK, resoldered the leads to the battery holder and no help. Then i placed the batteries in one at a time, got good voltage on batteries 1 and 2...but when I inserted #3, the voltage dropped. Upon close examination, the neg side of batt 3 holder had some corrosion and was dropping my battery voltage below 3vdc. Removed corrosion and the vdc jumped back up to 4.85. Put the batteries in place and tested D17 and I19, both now giving proper voltages.

So all voltage from the PCB is good, and voltage to the battery and from the battery, to and from D17 and pin 22 of IC19 (and TP7) all fall withing correct ranges now... mike, as you suggested, it's starting to sound like bad proms. Here's another odd thing. I have a yellow flipper chip, yet I believe I have a system 6 board (Later Flash pins used system 6 boards). I was under the impression that the flipper chip for a 6 was suppose to be green (yellow is sys 4)... probably just the "hybrid"ness of this machine as they were phasing out system 4 but the production run on Flash was a long one, so they used sys6 boards in the later games.

Oh well...onward I go...

All that said, it still is stuck in audit, but now when i shut off the machine I get a bell from the soundboard. So obviously it detected that something changed. ... on through the guide I go.
 
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Sounds like you are on the right track, and making progress.

I would replace the battery holder, possible make it a remote holder since there was some corossion on it.

The best place for PROM is John:
http://www.thatpinballplace.com/eproms/index.htm
Good Guy, Fast Service, Just email him and tell him what you need if it isn't on his web page.

Don't believe that what is in your machine now is what is **Supposed** to be in your machine. Since this machine is almost 30 years old, there have been lots of hands in that machine fixing it and keeping it running, and some of those hands may not have done the right thing.
Case in point, I picked up a Firepower that was "working 75%", the displays worked, the game played, but the kickout holes were taped over with duct tape. It turned out that the coils were just fine, however, the main CPU was replaced with a Alien Polker CPU, and they did not change the PROMS out. New Proms, and it worked fine. I also had a Black Knight that would not boot. I swapped in a set of Jungle Lord Proms, and it booted, so I ordered a set of Black Knight PROMS and it worked fine. Yes Proms, especially the EPROMS of that era do not last forever, and will stop working.

While you have the proms out, it would be a good idea to replace the sockets, especially if they are those old scanbe scockets.

Mike
 
more progress today. replaced the 5101 chip and the 40pin molex interconnect and this is now what I get!

Flashheadboard.jpg


Flash-PF_overview.jpg


Yesiree, that's attract mode!... still cant fire up a game. I can get into audit mode by flipping the door switch to auto and pressing the advance button, and I can step through the different addresses, but when I go to try the other tests by flipping the switch to manual (down) and then hitting the advance button, the LEDs go blank like they're suppose to after the first press...but that's it... she stays blank. The solenoids dont seem to be firing.

I do have a new set of the most recent eproms but I have to solder a socket in place and then test it out. Will try this tomorrow
 
replaced the 5101 chip and the 40pin molex interconnect and this is now what I get!

Awesome! That's exactly what I would have done next :)

I would probably install some fresh EPROMs next and go from there. It's always good to have known code in a game. Like Geese said... PROMs can be a problem. I had a Gorgar that did all kinds of weird things and worked perfectly with new EPROMs. I've also seen a Black Hole that would boot and try to play with 4 of the EPROM legs not connected. Personally I would probably pull the boards and get everything working out of the machine with a test EPROM but you can still troubleshoot with the boards in the game.
 
The new eproms I got (a set of 3) to replace my existing (a set of 5) did not work. they boot up in audit mode and show the proper flipper, game, rev... but i dont even get as far as I did with the old chips, cant get into attract mode. so I put the old roms/proms back in and i get attract mode again.

Not sure where to go from here, any suggestions? Lindsey, the test eprom, is that the "leon's test eprom" that I've read about?
 
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I've reluctantly decided to ship the boards to a guy in state, he was very helpful and is willing to work with me, but I'd prefer to know the boards are good to go prior to me tackling underneath the playfield.

Thanks for the help

Tom
 
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