Williams 'FLASH' issue, help requested.

Jedimojo

New member
Joined
Nov 11, 2009
Messages
72
Reaction score
0
Location
Omaha, Nebraska
So, this is my first pin.... and to say it's a project is to put it nicely. I bought it knowing that this would be a learning experience (that's what I tell myself anyways).

Here's my issue:
After getting it up and running with a new MPU from rottendog.... I went through the switches, etc. As expected, most worked / some didn't. After digging into the online manual and looking over the Switch Matrix... I verified that all of the non-working switches are from row 8 (the white-gray wire).

So, I went through the entire line testing for continuity and I get a clear tone from segment to segment... I also checked the diodes on each switch. All good.
Switches out are: High Score reset on the coin door, top right standup, right side standup, 5-bank #1 Drop Target (Top), Right Target, and the Out Hole.......which sucks the most 'cuz all my games so far have been just that first ball :(

Help a newb out here...... what am I missing? Thanks!
 
Continuity all the way up to the board connector - and past the board connector to the first component in that particular trace on the board?
 
I tested all the way up to the connector on the board.... I did not test the first component.
To deepen the plot here....

I had considered that there might be a problem with the board... but this is the second board I've put in from Rottendog, as the first had a problem with the board draining the lithium battery to dead quickly. I contacted Jim and he replaced the board with a different one.
So, I put the new one in today and I'm experiencing the same problems, I did another continuity test again today just to be thorough. Wouldn't it be unlikely that I'd get two new boards with the exact same fault?

I'm newer with the DMM, and have never tested continuity on a pcb. I haven't thought about it until now.
 
I was just trying to eliminate a connector issue. If you pull the connector and check continuity, you still could have problems with your headers or a trace. With a new board, that shouldn't be the issue though.

Did the first board also have the switch row issue, or just the battery problem?
 
Yes... it had the same issue. I currently have both boards. The first board looks like too much heat may have been applied to the solder (some of the pcb is discolored in that area)... so I assumed it might be an issue with that board. I made a point to look at that same solder on the newer board and while the solder looks (for lack of a better term) 'duller' than any other on the board... it looks like it should work. In my opinion.

I can't visually follow the traces to that connector.... and I can't make head or tails of the schematics. Guess that's not my thing.

I'd like to assume it's not the board(s).....being sold on the idea of getting rid of the interconnect issues with the original designs.
Not sure where I should go from here. If I can't find a physical problem in the wiring circuit..... I doubt I'm going to convince Jim it's his boards and not my ineptness.

Ug. Is it possible I'm missing something to do with the high score reset button on the coin door? Not sure if it requires a diode.... but it's the only item in the circuit that didn't have one. I'm getting a little frustrated with it and have to walk away from it for the night.... LOL.

Any other ideas before I give up and call Jim again?
 
So, this is my first pin.... and to say it's a project is to put it nicely. I bought it knowing that this would be a learning experience (that's what I tell myself anyways).

Here's my issue:
After getting it up and running with a new MPU from rottendog.... I went through the switches, etc. As expected, most worked / some didn't. After digging into the online manual and looking over the Switch Matrix... I verified that all of the non-working switches are from row 8 (the white-gray wire).

So, I went through the entire line testing for continuity and I get a clear tone from segment to segment... I also checked the diodes on each switch. All good.
Switches out are: High Score reset on the coin door, top right standup, right side standup, 5-bank #1 Drop Target (Top), Right Target, and the Out Hole.......which sucks the most 'cuz all my games so far have been just that first ball :(

Help a newb out here...... what am I missing? Thanks!
Couple questions, did you buy the Mpu/Driver combo? Do you have the dip switches set for the proper game? There should be the Leon test on that board,did you run that?
Glennon
 
It's the combo board, yep. MPU326. The dip switches are set correctly. The attract mode is working as it should so that should give me some confirmation it that as well. I'm not sure of the 'Leon' test though. If it's not the preliminary test with the two flashing LEDs and test switch outlined with the brief install instructions... then I didn't do it.

It's just occurred to me that I might be looking at a reversely installed diode. The older operator I got this from didn't seem like he was top of his class if you know what I mean. I wonder how I would determine if one was reversed?
 
Last edited:
it's unlikely it's the board I'd think since both of them are doing it. But stranger things have been known to happen.

If you can't get any further, you can always disconnect all the wiring after the first physical switch in the row. Then see if the first switch works. If yes, connect up to the next switch and repeat until you find the one causing your problems.

If you can't get any activity on the first switch only, you can at least not spend any time dealing with switches 2-8 and you'll know it's probably not a wiring/diode/short issue (unless it is associated with that first physical switch in the row).
 
It's the combo board, yep. MPU326. The dip switches are set correctly. The attract mode is working as it should so that should give me some confirmation it that as well. I'm not sure of the 'Leon' test though. If it's not the preliminary test with the two flashing LEDs and test switch outlined with the brief install instructions... then I didn't do it.

It's just occurred to me that I might be looking at a reversely installed diode. The older operator I got this from didn't seem like he was top of his class if you know what I mean. I wonder how I would determine if one was reversed?

A diode on the Rottendog board? If so just compare it to the first one he sent you or to the picture on the website. Yes the Leon test is the one you did when you installed the board for the first time. So I'm assuming you bought the game non working? Did you replace the connectors?
 
No... not a diode on the board... I'm talking about the wiring from switch to switch. I did not redo the connectors. Seeing how everything seems to be working EXCEPT the one white/gray wire leading to a single pin....I'm not sure that would be necessary.

So, I just went back to the game, pulled all the connectors and restarted with the instructions and connected the single connector per directions (again). This time the board does not seem to pass. The 1 LED is supposed to flash then turn off, then the second likewise. The second one works first then the first one comes on.
Here's the link of a cell video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9VfQnjHJaM&feature=player_profilepage
 
Just a friendly bump here. I double checked the diodes again....finally got to the 'high score reset' button on the coin door, Didn't see the in-line diode there the first time .... checked out fine though. I was told by a local repair guy that I should double check to make sure none of the diodes were loose or had a broken connection. Nope... it looks like they're in good and didn't visually see any shorts there. So, I guess I'm trolling for additional ideas from anybody (old school williams SS gurus) who might have missed the thread from last night.

It'll be several days before I have kid free and uninterrupted time to cut or de-solder and test each switch on row 8. Not really looking forward to it. Also did the switch test diagnostic tonight.... not that the results mattered as each switch in row 8 showed up in the display... in sequence. Guess I already knew that. blaaaaaaa. Pinball is fun, right?
 
Just a friendly bump here. I double checked the diodes again....finally got to the 'high score reset' button on the coin door, Didn't see the in-line diode there the first time .... checked out fine though. I was told by a local repair guy that I should double check to make sure none of the diodes were loose or had a broken connection. Nope... it looks like they're in good and didn't visually see any shorts there. So, I guess I'm trolling for additional ideas from anybody (old school williams SS gurus) who might have missed the thread from last night.

It'll be several days before I have kid free and uninterrupted time to cut or de-solder and test each switch on row 8. Not really looking forward to it. Also did the switch test diagnostic tonight.... not that the results mattered as each switch in row 8 showed up in the display... in sequence. Guess I already knew that. blaaaaaaa. Pinball is fun, right?

Did you check the switches to make sure they are not making contact? The switch numbers that come up in the test mean those switches are making contact.
 
Did you rebuild the switch column and row connectors? You may get continuity by sticking your probe into the pin, but it doesn't mean that it has enough tension to maintain a good signal to the board. Re-crimp both of these with new pins (should be done as one of the mandatory steps to making ANY Sys3 -Sys7 game reliable anyway.) and see if your problem is still there.
 
Could be I'm missing the issue, but from what he is explaining when in test mode several switch numbers come up. Wouldn't this indicate tha those switches are in fact working and just stuck on? He mentioned the outhole is one of the switches coming up in test, is that not because the ball is in the outhole and activating the switch and the others may just be misadjusted and making contact all the time.
Glennon
 
Every switch in the row comes up.... The odds of randomly hitting all of those and no others would be extreme . Assuming They're misaligned. They're not from what I could tell. If I were to bridge the correct pin to the corresponding wire for that row... I would know if it's the connector. I think I will try that tomorrow.
 
Ok yeah the problem was not stated very clearly. So now what I am reading is that one entire Row of the matrix is stuck on?

To diagnose and narrow down if it is on the playfield or the board do the following. Turn the game on with the switch row and column connectors connected. Get into switch test.

Disconnect both connectors. Now manually ground each combination of row pin to column pin and make sure you get the correct switch per the manual. For example Row Pin 1, Column Pin 3 should give you switch 17 - spinner.

If you still see all of those stuck switches with the connectors removed, then you know the inputs to the matrix, or the PIA for the switch matrix is bad and you need to talk to Rottendog.


Triple check the outhole switch and make sure its not shorting again the metal of the trough.
 
I find it hard to believe two dirrerent Rottendog boards have the same problem. I would start checking connectors and wires.
 
If any of you guys have a williams coin door from this game or era.... could you please check and tell me what's the correct orientation for the diode associated with the High Score reset button? Which end should be soldered to the white/gray wire and which end should be soldered to the green/red?
Thanks in advance for looking!
 
Back
Top Bottom