Willem programmer with PCB 5.0 (.98DB)

gottifour

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I have been trying to read and or write some 27C1000 eproms but I can't figure it out. It will work fine for 2764's but I must be doing something wrong.

Has anybody used one of these to read and/or write to these eproms?

This is the programmer I speak of.

Willem%20Programmer.jpg
 
When dealing with the 1Mb EPROMs you have 2 distinct, yet different types: JEDEC (27c010, etc..) and non-JEDEC (27c301) types.

If it fails 1/2 way through the write then you are using the wrong type. When dealing with 27C1000 and 27C1001 you may find yourself scratching your head as to which type it is. Consult the data sheets to see: http://www.datasheetarchive.com

The difference between the two is that address line A16 and one of the enable pins are swapped.

Raymond
 
When dealing with the 1Mb EPROMs you have 2 distinct, yet different types: JEDEC (27c010, etc..) and non-JEDEC (27c301) types.

If it fails 1/2 way through the write then you are using the wrong type. When dealing with 27C1000 and 27C1001 you may find yourself scratching your head as to which type it is. Consult the data sheets to see: http://www.datasheetarchive.com

The difference between the two is that address line A16 and one of the enable pins are swapped.

Raymond

Thanks for the information Raymond!

I did get the 1/2 way through error when I tried to program them the first time.

I have read through the document and it is way over my head on so many levels! :) The one thing that I have noticed several times in the document and in various other Google searches is the Vpp setting. I also see a programming voltage of 12.75V but my programmer is only 5V. I can only assume I don't understand what programming voltage is.

I will continue to read through it but it's very confusing to an amateur like myself. I know I can have them programmed by several people here but sometimes getting it done on your own (with the help and advice of many KLOV'rs) feels like an accomplishment in some way.

I will attach the datasheet for the EPROM's in question in case somebody is familiar with them. They are SGS-Thompson M27C1000's

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/12273640/DSA-630280.pdf

Pinout.png
 
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Don't worry about programming voltages... the EPROM programmer generates the necessary voltages internally from the 5V supply.

Can you post a pic of the EPROM you're trying to program?

What software are you using? USBPrg?

What device (exactly) are you selecting in the software?
 
Don't worry about programming voltages... the EPROM programmer generates the necessary voltages internally from the 5V supply.

Can you post a pic of the EPROM you're trying to program?

What software are you using? USBPrg?

What device (exactly) are you selecting in the software?

Thanks for the response! I am trying to replace the two on the left with the two on the right or just reprogram the ones on the right with the new data.

I bought the two on the right because they were erased and for some reason I couldn't get the ones on the left to erase. I'm now learning that they may have been erased but my programmer showed them as not empty.

27C1000%27s.jpg


screenshot.png
 
I can't find a datasheet for the NEC D27C1000 (or NEC D27C1000D), so I'm not sure if it's the JEDEC (27C010-like) or non-JEDEC (27C301-like) pinout.

However, the right two (ST parts) are non-JECEC (27C301-like) pinout devices.

It looks like what you have selected in your programmer is the JEDEC (27C010-like) pinout, as it says "27C010/1000/1001". Is 27C301 in the device list?


One other observation, your originals (the ones on the left) are 150ns speed (the -15 suffix) and your replacement EPROMs (the STs on the right) are 200ns speed (the -20 suffix). Depending on the application, the 200ns ones may not be fast enough. They look like they were on a Sega board. You doing resurrection ROMs for a System 16 game?
 
I can't find a datasheet for the NEC D27C1000 (or NEC D27C1000D), so I'm not sure if it's the JEDEC (27C010-like) or non-JEDEC (27C301-like) pinout.

However, the right two (ST parts) are non-JECEC (27C301-like) pinout devices.

It looks like what you have selected in your programmer is the JEDEC (27C010-like) pinout, as it says "27C010/1000/1001". Is 27C301 in the device list?


One other observation, your originals (the ones on the left) are 150ns speed (the -15 suffix) and your replacement EPROMs (the STs on the right) are 200ns speed (the -20 suffix). Depending on the application, the 200ns ones may not be fast enough. They look like they were on a Sega board. You doing resurrection ROMs for a System 16 game?

Hey Darren these are the only options I see in my programmer and yes I am trying to resurrect a System X Thunder Blade upright. I ordered the eproms from ebay so I'm probably I ordered the wrong ones.

ss2.png
 
Hey guys,

Before I destroy any more eproms in the process. Do you guys know if these are the proper ones for a Sega resurrection?

http://www.datasheets360.com/part/detail/m27c1000-12f1/7938499251178626730

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/12273640/SGSTD010-113.pdf


I've ordered some new eproms that M27C1000-12FI. Will these be too fast now or is that not a thing, with only too slow being a problem?

I don't see 27C301 option in any of the software I've tried. Is there an 27C301 equivalent that would work or will I need a different programmer?

I get device is NOT empty when using the defult 27C1000 settings on my Willem programmer but I'm assuming thats because I need to be on a 27C301 setting.

If these are the proper eproms can I send them to somebody to program for me if and when I can't figure it out?


I know that is a lot of questions. Sorry!
 
Bump in case somebody can help me out..

Can anybody suggest a budget versatile programmer?

Thanks
 
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Two comments:

1) Usually "too fast" isn't a problem. For that matter "slower than the originals" isn't *always* a problem either, as often parts that were faster than the minimum spec were used. Some of the better schematics indicate the minimum specified EPROM (or RAM) speed for the design. All that said, I usually don't sweat the speed very much, unless something doesn't work as expected.

2) The pinouts of the 27010 (JEDEC 1Mb EPROM) and the 27301 (non-JEDEC 1Mb EPROM) are the same except for 2 pins swapped. So an adapter can be made by stacking sockets, bending out legs, and soldering wire. Here's a diagram showing the two pinouts side by side with the wiring needed to make an adapter:

27c301.png


Have you tried dumping (reading) the data on the original EPROMs, using the 27010 setting? It won't damage them even if they are non-JEDEC type. If you get all the data, you know they are JEDEC type.
 
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As always thanks for the response Darren! Unfortunately I didn't dump the originals because I thought I was going to erase them, program them and be on my way. Well I thought wrong! :)

I used your wiring configuration and I can now verify they are erased which is a step in the right direction but when I attemp to program them they fail about a third of the way through.




Two comments:

1) Usually "too fast" isn't a problem. For that matter "slower than the originals" isn't *always* a problem either, as often parts that were faster than the minimum spec were used. Some of the better schematics indicate the minimum specified EPROM (or RAM) speed for the design. All that said, I usually don't sweat the speed very much, unless something doesn't work as expected.

2) The pinouts of the 27010 (JEDEC 1Mb EPROM) and the 27301 (non-JEDEC 1Mb EPROM) are the same except for 2 pins swapped. So an adapter can be made by stacking sockets, bending out legs, and soldering wire. Here's a diagram showing the two pinouts side by side with the wiring needed to make an adapter:

27c301.png


Have you tried dumping (reading) the data on the original EPROMs, using the 27010 setting? It won't damage them even if they are non-JEDEC type. If you get all the data, you know they are JEDEC type.
 
If its reading as empty with the jumpers can I assume it should be programming fine?


I'm wondering if I should pull one of the other eprom's off the board and try to read them to see if they are JEDEC or non-JEDEC.
 
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