Why different monitor calibrations per game?

[purbeast]

I'll be the first to say that I don't really understand how under the hood monitors work, so I'll just get that out of the way.

But I was wondering why in the same arcade cabinet, when I put in different JAMMA boards, why do I have to adjust different monitor settings? And I am not really talking about color/contrast but more about position/size.

For instance, in my Maximum Force cabinet, I have it set so that Maximum Force is perfectly centered on screen with full screen and what not.

But when I put in my Carnevil board, the screen is shifted big time to the right. It's so big that the pots on the remote board for H.POS aren't enough to move it to the left to center it. I have to go behind the cabinet and change pots on the chassis board.

I am just wondering why this is the case. Why doesn't the "picture" get set and then anything it outputs is just displayed in the same position with same dimensions.

Main reason I am wondering about this is because I just put a switcher in my cabinet and am trying to figure out if there is any way at all that I can find a setting that will work for all games, because having to go behind the cabinet to change settings when I switch games, really is going to take a lot of the point out of the switcher. I also kind of assumed that I would set the position/dimensions for the switcher and all games through it would look the same - bad assumption on my part I guess.

I also plan on doing a capkit in the near future, and I was wondering if doing that will have any effect on how much the H.POS on the remote board would change it, so that maybe I could get it setup where I only have to adjust the pots on the remote board which I can do from the front. Ideally I'd like to NOT have to do any of that but could live with that.

 

[cleure]

Main reason I am wondering about this is because I just put a switcher in my cabinet and am trying to figure out if there is any way at all that I can find a setting that will work for all games, because having to go behind the cabinet to change settings when I switch games, really is going to take a lot of the point out of the switcher. I also kind of assumed that I would set the position/dimensions for the switcher and all games through it would look the same - bad assumption on my part I guess.

What monitor you got? More importantly, what controls does it have on the remote board?

You have discovered why virtually all candy cabs have most picture controls accessible from the front.

I also plan on doing a capkit in the near future, and I was wondering if doing that will have any effect on how much the H.POS on the remote board would change it, so that maybe I could get it setup where I only have to adjust the pots on the remote board which I can do from the front. Ideally I'd like to NOT have to do any of that but could live with that.

This will not change to the problem you have.

If your monitor does not have the controls you need, I'd suggest finding one that does.

Or you can try to find a happy medium between all of the games, so you don't have to make so many adjustments.

 

[purbeast]

What monitor you got? More importantly, what controls does it have on the remote board?

You have discovered why virtually all candy cabs have most picture controls accessible from the front.



This will not change to the problem you have.

If your monitor does not have the controls you need, I'd suggest finding one that does.

Or you can try to find a happy medium between all of the games, so you don't have to make so many adjustments.

It is a Neotec 2515c in the Maximum Force cabinet.

I can adjust the H.POS on the remote board however the change it makes is not nearly as much as is needed to go between Carnevil and the other two games. I could find a happy medium between the other 2 games pretty easily though.

I do have another 25" monitor in my KI2 cabinet that is a WG-U2000. Maybe if I get around to it I will try swapping them and seeing if it makes any difference. The thing is though I have that one set perfectly in my KI2 cabinet already.

 

[mecha]

if you have trouble tracking, do also verify your glass and tube are clean. brightness you generally want black to be set to absolute black, you don't want grey pixel dots in black. if your tube is weak you may need to compensate though. Lyons is on the money about brightness, more brightness will get the guns to respond better, but do this purely as a diagnostic measure, every gun game I've worked on I never had to overdrive brightness.

you can rule out if you have a gun fault by swapping guns between P1 and P2 permitting of course at least one of the guns is good.

Area 51 is a total male reproductive organ with voltage, it has to be within a very narrow range. read the PSU guide in my signature for the steps to cleaning the JAMMA edge and adjusting power supply accurately. if you have a single board, you will be able to run it at 5.05V all day long, but if you have an ancient power supply your results may vary. I raise the issue with voltage because on a lot of other gun games that are NOT Area 51 if the voltage is too low, the guns won't get enough power to track accurately and you'll have a lot of problems with those. Area 51 simply won't run, it'll be a black screen I'm sure if you're too low, but be mindful of this if you come across something else later like a Sega gun game.

you can also experiment with reducing the width and height of the picture to see if that helps. Neotec monitors have 2 H. Posi adjustments, the one on the remote board is a fine adjustment and the one on the deflection board is coarse. I would set this by adjusting the remote one to center, and then on a crosshatch pattern with a different game or by using your ninja skills with the test mode of Area 51 use the deflection H. Posi to center it.

report back with what you find.

I found my exact comment about H. Pos on Neotec monitors, so I did in fact tell you this once.

for your current dilemma, the reality is you're a casual. you're trying to do too much with your lightgun multi game. it's not a project for a new collector, if you are new, or lack the technical understanding of how things work. I'm trying to help you here though. so I'll explain why you need different "monitor calibrations per game".

I made a Multi Kombat and I had to go through all the same rigors with finding happy medium monitor adjustments.

when I was researching doing that back in 2009 I learned that it's actually a thing to have 2 of the same exact board and require different monitor adjustments. the most common being the horizontal hold. they can be the exact same type of hardware and even the same exact game and require entirely different adjustments. fortunately the horizontal oscillator on the monitor should have enough range to allot for the differences in frequencies.

consider it a blessing your H. Hold is on the remote board on the U5000 instead of on the deflection board like a K7400, or you would be in a major world of hurt.

 

[Brentradio]

It's not the monitor, it's the boardset.

Different boards output differently.

My brand new Vision Pro 19" comes with a remote board with all 6 major controls on it. I have an extension on it so I can pull it out of the coin door and stand in front of the game to adjust it. With custom 3D case.

Great monitor, Love It!

I'm constantly swapping boards with my switcher in my Jamma cab and almost always have to adjust for each board. I like to get it almost perfect screen fit each time so it looks great no matter which board I'm using.

Some boards like the Taito F3 system have really bad offset. Luckily, I am able to adjust that board perfectly as well.

 

[Jr. Pac]

I've wondered this too. I know it's the boardset, but wonder the technicalities.

Don't shoot me, but this is one silly aspect I like about 60 in 1s... in my experience the picture always shows up in just the right place at just the right size.

My Namco Gaplus board shows the picture on a GO7 way too far to the left, far enough the game gets slightly cut off. But a 60 in 1 on the same monitor shows the picture dead center. And I really, really did not want to have to mess with that vertical adjustment pin...

Similar thing with my Ms. Pac. Picture was a bit too tall and low and I hadn't had the tool to adjust the width coil yet. Quickly popped in a 60 in 1 with a JAMMA adapter, and the picture was perfect.

 

[Brentradio]

Different components from different makers from different time frames running different code from different companies...

 

[demogo]

Why can't someone make a plugin box with a bit of memory for each setting that can digitally adjust the resistance for each pot? I'd like one with 6 buttons on it so that I can set it correctly for board #1, press the memorize button, followed by the '1' button and it'll remember how all of the pots are adjusted. Then the next time I want to go back to perfect settings for board 1, I press the '1' button and voila.

And the same thing for board 2...6.

I'd definitely pay money for that.

 

[aramis1]

Why can't someone make a plugin box with a bit of memory for each setting that can digitally adjust the resistance for each pot? I'd like one with 6 buttons on it so that I can set it correctly for board #1, press the memorize button, followed by the '1' button and it'll remember how all of the pots are adjusted. Then the next time I want to go back to perfect settings for board 1, I press the '1' button and voila.

And the same thing for board 2...6.

I'd definitely pay money for that.

Go buy an arduino or pi and get to work! Seems like more hassle than it's worth. If you use digital pots but I believe they need to be powered to have proper resistance so your monitor might wreck itself if the pots are way out if the thing loses power or wigs out. You could use motors on each pot but like 6 motors and a controller sounds complicated and pricy. If I was still working in a lab and paid a salary to work on something like that I'd do it but seems like a solution for a problem that isn't worth fixing.

Me I just manually swap out Jamma boards if I want to change the game. Do a quick monitor adjustment if needed.

 

[cleure]

It's not the monitor, it's the boardset.

Different boards output differently.

Yes, and it goes beyond arcade boards too.

Video game consoles all output slightly different timings and brightness levels.

On TVs, though, they usually overscan quite a bit, so it's not as noticeable.

My brand new Vision Pro 19" comes with a remote board with all 6 major controls on it. I have an extension on it so I can pull it out of the coin door and stand in front of the game to adjust it. With custom 3D case.

Great monitor, Love It!

After swapping boards on a few candy cabs (MS8/MS9 Monitors), I really appreciate the amount of thought that went into how they would be used. It makes swapping boards a breeze.

 

[VectorCollector]

In both the "analog world" and the "digital world" there are margins and tolerances. The larger the connected system, the more these "errors" multiply. And thus, you'll see differences - some minor, some major.

 

[demogo]

Go buy an arduino or pi and get to work! Seems like more hassle than it's worth. If you use digital pots but I believe they need to be powered to have proper resistance so your monitor might wreck itself if the pots are way out if the thing loses power or wigs out. You could use motors on each pot but like 6 motors and a controller sounds complicated and pricy. If I was still working in a lab and paid a salary to work on something like that I'd do it but seems like a solution for a problem that isn't worth fixing.

Me I just manually swap out Jamma boards if I want to change the game. Do a quick monitor adjustment if needed.

I have 6 boards in one cab; it's not terribly hard to adjust the monitor with each board switch, it just takes a minute or so each time and even then, the image isn't really optimal because it's not worth adjusting every single control when switching boards.

 

[purbeast]

The past day I have played around with swapping my WG U2000 into my Maximum Force cabinet with the switcher in it simply because the remote board allows for MUCH more adjustment in the horizontal settings. I have it all up and running in there and can get each game to look perfect from the coinbox now instead of going into the back of my cabinet, opening it, and playing with the horizontal controls on the deflection board. That wasn't a realistic scenario for me so I'm glad I have another cabinet I can swap monitors with.

Plus, the U2000 looks a lot sharper and I'm getting better gun calibration with it too compared to the 2515C. However the U2000 had a capkit done about 4 months ago and I don't think the 2515C has ever had one done. I ordered a new capkit and flyback for it though so that will be my next project and hopefully it looks just as good once that's done. But it will be in my other cabinet.

 

[D_Harris]

Can't all needed individual monitor adjustments be wired from the monitor to a series of pots on a PCB located just within the coin door?

And besides the horizontal, what other image properties are likely to be an issue because of variation from one gameboard to the next?

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

 

[demogo]

Can't all needed individual monitor adjustments be wired from the monitor to a series of pots on a PCB located just within the coin door?

And besides the horizontal, what other image properties are likely to be an issue because of variation from one gameboard to the next?

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

Brightness, contrast, hsize, vsize, hpos, vpos. Those every time.

 

[JamBurglar]

This is why I gave up on the JAMMA switcher.

 

[purbeast]

Can't all needed individual monitor adjustments be wired from the monitor to a series of pots on a PCB located just within the coin door?

And besides the horizontal, what other image properties are likely to be an issue because of variation from one gameboard to the next?

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

Look at my video here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuMHTcuq-5Y

It was calibrated perfectly for Carnevil at the time.

But then look at Maximum Force. Look how much of an empty space is over on the right of the screen, and the image is not wide enough (hard to tell that from the video).

And the horizontal position pot on the remote board in the coin box area does NOT move it nearly enough to fill that gape, as well as the horizontal size.

But with the U2000 in there now, it adjusts plenty from the remote board.

 

[mgkastra]

Might want to treat it as the possibility to switch rather than switching constantly. That is one of the problems with Multisetups. You are always flipping between games instead of playing the games. Did you get one of the updated switchers from RiddledTV that remembers which game you were on last when turned off? That seems like it might be good for your setup

I have been pretty lucky with my switcher situations.

Galaga
Galaxian
Galaga 88
Mappy
Circus Charlie
Zarzon
The End
BitKit
60 in 1
412 in 1
Scramble
Super Cobra
Turtles
Mikie
Time Pilot
Gyruss
Ms Pacman
Roc-n-rope
Time Pilot 84
JROK Boards
Eyes
Vanguard
The Pit
25/20Pacgal
ArcadeSD
Arpicade
Kicker
Mat Mania

All play very nice with switchers. The only board I have ran into with problems so far is Burger Time, which is too bright

 

[VectorCollector]

Brightness, contrast, hsize, vsize, hpos, vpos. Those every time.

https://paradisearcadeshop.com/home...s-supplies/885-remote-video-adjustment-boards

 

[Brentradio]

Or get a Vision Pro monitor with the remote board that has all 6 pots on it.

I can dial almost any board in perfectly easily and quickly.