Who invented the cap kit?

Mattspad

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 21, 2015
Messages
3,063
Reaction score
592
Location
Florida
Who was the first to start selling the ever so popular repair kits for arcades? I was wondering that myself today.
 
Zanen? or something close to that was selling cap and repair back in the 80's and 90's. You had to call and order them.
 
back in the day they were are "incomplete cap kits". no one was replacing all electrolytics (due to age they didn't have to replace them all) and even today you find these type of kits or complete kits with caps of poor quality. most customers don't know the hundreds or thousands of options for just a 1uf50v cap and why are there so many choices and your choice shouldn't be solely based on price because remember you get what you pay for is very true most of the time. there is alot of differences to know to determine if your getting quality or just the cheapest junk someone can source but the customer needs to understand that so they can source kits with quality components.
 
It was Zanen Electronics. They were the first ones to package up the most common failure capacitors for the most popular makes and models of monitors. Also the first to list the capacitors and locations they go. Gradually, over the years Zanen has started to update their kits with more capacitors, resistors, trimpots that have been found to go bad so the kits today are more complete than they used to be. However, they are still using very low quality capacitors in the kits. Bob Roberts also uses low quality capacitors.

I can remember seeing some early Zanen Electronics capkit instructions with a 1986 copyright date. Remember, today many color monitors in classic machines are 30+ years old and black & white monitors 40+ years old.
 
I don't get how a cheap kit on eBay for lets say a sanyo is like 12 dollars and will last you maybe 5 years in an arcade where its on most of the time. When a kit from security is 17.50 is using much better caps and will last like 20 years at least in an arcade. Why do people even bother with cheap kits? How much more money are sellers getting using cheap caps than security0001? Also thanks I guessed it was zanen or bob as I hear about them from tnt amusements a lot.
 
I don't get how a cheap kit on eBay for lets say a sanyo is like 12 dollars and will last you maybe 5 years in an arcade where its on most of the time. When a kit from security is 17.50 is using much better caps and will last like 20 years at least in an arcade. Why do people even bother with cheap kits? How much more money are sellers getting using cheap caps than security0001? Also thanks I guessed it was zanen or bob as I hear about them from tnt amusements a lot.

i think your giving them a lot of credit for 5 years, but you know there are places out there (i have been contacted by them) that will build cheap kits of any lower quality caps you want for extremely cheap and they will even build slightly better kits for happ and others but they won't build kits like what i sell. i have continuously made changes and even some PW series caps i have changed to HE series which are super expensive since they are 10,000 hour caps and so far my prices haven't changed. i am always trying to find the best stuff to put in kits and NEVER the cheapest because i want things to last, so in the long run my kits may be a couple bucks more but will last much longer and you do the job once. people get so focused on price only they forget to look at quality and that is why those places succeed at selling those crappy kits.
 
The one place I see using capacitors alot on monitors is those Midway cocktail table cabinets. The air circulation in those things is so poor even with a brand new fan installed. The capacitors literally bake in those cabinets. In my experience, a typical Zanen or Bob capkit lasts only 3 months in those cabinets.

High temperature AND high quality capacitors are a MUST for any cocktail table cabinet in my opinion.
 
The one place I see using capacitors alot on monitors is those Midway cocktail table cabinets. The air circulation in those things is so poor even with a brand new fan installed. The capacitors literally bake in those cabinets. In my experience, a typical Zanen or Bob capkit lasts only 3 months in those cabinets.

High temperature AND high quality capacitors are a MUST for any cocktail table cabinet in my opinion.

Good to know thanks for sharing. Do nintendo cocktails have that issue? They seem like they got more ventilation.
 
I don't get how a cheap kit on eBay for lets say a sanyo is like 12 dollars and will last you maybe 5 years in an arcade where its on most of the time. When a kit from security is 17.50 is using much better caps and will last like 20 years at least in an arcade. Why do people even bother with cheap kits? How much more money are sellers getting using cheap caps than security0001? Also thanks I guessed it was zanen or bob as I hear about them from tnt amusements a lot.

Best thing I can come up with, is that some people will trip over a dollar to save a penny.
 
Here's the thing.

Even a cheap cap kit will last normal users 5 years. even in the arcades a cheap kit will last you 1-2 years before it becomes a necessary replacement. When you are buying dozens and dozens of cap kits, sometimes you think its better to buy the cheap ones. You've been buying them for years and you don't know better.

The kits that me and peter are selling are going to last a normal user the life span of the rubber in the cap. Which for all intents and purposes is going to be 30 years (manufacture claims 10 years but....). Where the good kits matter is in the arcades, where again, the kits are going to last 15 years.

Another place the good kits matter are in the modern monitors. They use fairly high ripple capacitors and no nichicon VR or cheapy cap is going to take that much current for very long before it goes.

Lastly, some people might not realize but a good kit doesn't cost much more than a cheap kit. I priced my kits as aggressively as I could, and often end up the same price as Bob Roberts.
 
Does it realistically matter? In arcades the machines were on 8 to 10 hours a day every day but at home, how often to people even turn them on? Not saying I'd buy cheap parts, but at the end of the day I wonder how much it really matters if you only use the game for an hour a week.
 
Does it realistically matter?
IMO... probably not much. I've been collecting for ~15 years, and the K4900 I rebuilt with a Bob Roberts kit back in 2002 still looks great... as do the other monitors that I've rebuilt between then and now (most of my machines that have been recapped were done >8 years ago). I can't think of any monitors that I've had to do a cap kit on more than once, and have used pretty much all Zanen and Bob Roberts kits (or ones I've put together myself from Digikey)... nobody sold the "Cadillac cap kits" until the last few years.

That's not to say high quality kits aren't better... 105C caps should have a longer life than 85C caps (particularly in warmer areas of a chassis)... but in a home environment, calendar years have more of an effect on them than hours of use at their rated temperature. A quality brand probably matters more for long life than temperature rating (knockoff ebay caps aren't likely good to begin with, so after a year of light use, they'll probably be junk).

Like most things, it depends on the person. If you feel better that you spent 3x the price to use the best caps... that's great. And if you hate doing cap kits, and your time is worth never having to do it again (or if you're paying someone to do the labor for you), spend the extra money. But I think history has proven that the cheap Zanen and Bob Roberts kits work fine most of the time, and the 105C kits are probably overkill for a lot of us collectors.

DogP
 
I remember buying a cap kit/upgrade for my david hafler amp late 90's, it was very expensive.
 
IMO... probably not much. I've been collecting for ~15 years, and the K4900 I rebuilt with a Bob Roberts kit back in 2002 still looks great... as do the other monitors that I've rebuilt between then and now (most of my machines that have been recapped were done >8 years ago). I can't think of any monitors that I've had to do a cap kit on more than once, and have used pretty much all Zanen and Bob Roberts kits (or ones I've put together myself from Digikey)... nobody sold the "Cadillac cap kits" until the last few years.

That's not to say high quality kits aren't better... 105C caps should have a longer life than 85C caps (particularly in warmer areas of a chassis)... but in a home environment, calendar years have more of an effect on them than hours of use at their rated temperature. A quality brand probably matters more for long life than temperature rating (knockoff ebay caps aren't likely good to begin with, so after a year of light use, they'll probably be junk).

Like most things, it depends on the person. If you feel better that you spent 3x the price to use the best caps... that's great. And if you hate doing cap kits, and your time is worth never having to do it again (or if you're paying someone to do the labor for you), spend the extra money. But I think history has proven that the cheap Zanen and Bob Roberts kits work fine most of the time, and the 105C kits are probably overkill for a lot of us collectors.

DogP


To add to this, the games the capacitor manufactures play with the spec is deceiving.
an 85C and 105C cap can be the same cap. One will have a higher price tag because it was specced at 105C. but if you pay attention you will notice its the same cap.

Quick example.
105C cap, 1000 hour. 18mA ripple
85C cap, 2000 Hour, 37mA Ripple.

Same cap, same electrolytic. Only difference was the spec rating. Any cap can exceed its temperature rating (to a point) and any cap can exceed its ripple rating (to a point). But both will reduce its life span. Keep in mind that these hour ratings are all mathematical formulas. a 1000 hour 105C cap should last about 10,000 hours+ of on time. Figure out how long that is with how long you keep your games on.

Where the higher quality kits matter are with extremely high temperature applications (cocktails) and in high ripple circuits. Monitors like the K7500, Makvision, D9200, etc.

Here's my advice from a guy who sells kits. Buy whatever you think is a fair price for your game. If you think bob or zanen's prices are more inline with your wallet. go for it. If you have enough games to warrant the hassle of picking out a ton of caps, its probably cheaper, do it. Often times its not cheaper than a kit but it really just doesn't matter for the home player.
 
Time is the thing I have the least of. I'm not going to put in a cap kit that MAY fail. I'm not looking to do the job twice. I keep most of my games for MANY years. I'd like to do the job once.

Plus, don't forget electrolytic capacitors age without use too.... so if you put in a 1000 hour cap and only run your game 2 hours a year does NOT mean the caps will last you 50 years.

Similarly, when I fix my car, for many things I use genuine parts. I'm not taking a chance when I go through the trouble of doing my timing belt to save $10 on a water pump that if it fails, at best I'll have to change it before the timing belt interval, and at worse it will destroy my whole engine when it seizes up, takes out the timing belt and blows the engine.

You do get what you pay for. If saving up to $5 per cap kit is important to you, by all means do it, it's your came, and your $5. Do as you please. But for my games, I'm not buying Bob's or anyone elses cheap cap kits. (Mind you I like Bob, and I'll still by from Bob.... just not cap kits, I used him here as an example only).

Some of your fellow KLOVers (you know who they are), have gone the extra mile to put together the best cap kits available. They cost a few dollars more, but not only do you get a better cap kit, you also help better support your fellow KLOVers. I'm glad that so many here do so much for this hobby (from cap kits to reproduction metal).

Regardless of which cap kit you buy, fix your game and enjoy it. Keep them alive for generations to come. While many will want the immersive realistic gaming experience, there will always be those for nostalgia, history, etc will find and enjoy these relics we cherish so much. Game on !
 
To be fair to the cheap kits, you can throw 6, 8 hour parties a year for 20 years before you reach 1,000 hours. For the average collector this is more than enough at half the cost. I personally don't use them because i'm not stocking twice the components to cater to both markets. My work is expected to last on location. On location, thousands of hours pass quickly. I stock what suits that market and offer the same to collectors.

Bob sells what he sells because it suits you and costs you less. Not because he wants to increase his margin and loves cheap capacitors. You buy what you think you need as a collector considering both budget and usage needs. Out of respect for this consideration, I have and still would install a customer supplied cap kit. I merely won't warranty the components.

Capacitors are consumables. While all other components can and will fail for all manner of reasons, capacitors are the ones you know will fail with certainty. Thus it was only a matter of time before someone 'invented' the cap kit much like someone invented the belt kit for tape decks. Much like auto parts stores decided to stock oil filters and oil. It's not really important who invented it. It was an inevitable thing. Someone just did it first.
 
Plus, don't forget electrolytic capacitors age without use too.... so if you put in a 1000 hour cap and only run your game 2 hours a year does NOT mean the caps will last you 50 years.

Just to correct you. the way caps age differ between active use and inactive storage.


active use will generally be evaporation aging. Where the electrolytic evaporates through the seal. Also, but less. Leakage current can increase as the oxide layer degrades and self heals less.

Inactive use falls into two categories. you still have evaporation. which should last as long as the manufacture specs the seal. (generally 10 years, but it lasts longer than that). The other form of aging is from the oxide breakdown. The electrolytic does eat away the oxide insulation layer. When you power the cap on it rebuilds that oxide layer. This is why you can't plug a cap in backwards, it will start to eat away the oxide and plate it to the other side, but not before the cap overheats and explodes. Some cap series are notoriously bad at the oxide damage during inactive storage.
 
I'll spend hundreds of dollars on a machine, hundreds or thousands on restores. But I'm going to not spend an extra $5 on getting the best cap kit. LOL

You guys crack me up :D
 
Back
Top Bottom