White Water: Am I Completely Missing an Optical Switch?

jalpert

Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2008
Messages
691
Reaction score
2
Location
Colorado
White Water: Am I Completely Missing an Optical Switch?

When I boot my new White Water I get two switch errors, both optical. One in particular has me concerned because according to the manual there should be an optical switch on this ramp but there isn't. Can someone tell me where switch 66 (left ramp main) is suppose to be. I've got a bad feeling it's suppose to be where I took the pictures, and it appears to be completely gone. Picture attached, here is a link to the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I98ZdSzPJQ4
 

Attachments

  • photo-1.jpg
    photo-1.jpg
    62.3 KB · Views: 29
Last edited:
Sometimes manuals aren't always right ..but based on your pic, you've got a regular switch where the manual says 66 should be. I'll take a look at my Whitewater tonight and let you know if it looks different. I don't think there are supposed to be optos up there, but I'll let ya know what I find.
 
No optos there on mine. That manual is bumpkis. The rubber chart is all wrong, if you look at it see if you can tell me what the hell the "D" rubber is. It would block off the pops they way the manual shows. Mine just had 2 5/16" on each post instead of a 1" stretched between.
 
Good to know that I'm not missing a switch.

However, I'm still can't find switch 66. I can tell it exists because once I hit the switch at the bottom of the spine chiller it gives me credit for it, seems like there should be another switch to ensure you actually go up the ramp.

If you guys can tell me what yours looks like, and/or take a pic of switch 66 I'd GREATLY appreciate it. Thanks.
 
Last edited:
I'm not sure what the switch number is, but there is one at the top of Spine Chiller as well as the entrance.

If you take off the rear mountains you should be able to see it. It may be stuck.
 
Last edited:
I really hope I'm being a d-bag and it's there, but I just don't see a switch. I took a really shitty video of the length of the ramp, as you know there is a lot of stuff in the way. The only switch I see is the opto near bigfoot, but that is not switch 66 and it's not in the middle of the ramp:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I98ZdSzPJQ4

Do you see anything there that gives you a clue?

EDIT:

You said top and entrance, maybe it's all there... if this looks normal 2 questions:

Where the hell is switch 66?
When you need to complete the spine chiller, do you get full credit just for hitting the gate on the main play field even if you don't go all the way up the ramp? This doesn't seem like it's behaving like it should.

I had a problem with the wirlpool exit opto, but the ramp under the table was so dirty the optos couldn't see each other. Cleaned the ramp and all is well.

I'm not sure what the switch number is, but there is one at the top of Spine Chiller as well as the entrance.

If you take off the rear mountains you should be able to see it. It may be stuck.
 
Last edited:
ahh crap, I looked at mine wrong. It's in pieces, so I'm trying to eyeball it all back how it should be. The other switch up there is the one by Bigfoot. It's right next to the divot you were working on. Yes, you have to go all the way up Spine Chiller to get credit.

My bad.

I think that must be it, it's the only opto I see up there as well. I bet that sucker's dirty like the other was.
 
Last edited:
I don't think the opto by bigfoot is it. In the switch test it's operating normally.

Switch 66 is "Left ramp main." The bottom of the spin chiller is "Left ramp entrance" The opto by bigfoot is something else.

I get credit for the spin chiller just by hitting the lower gate, I'm assuming this the machine adjusting for the fact that "left ramp main" is god knows where.

Switch 66, left ramp main, the switch that confirms you made it through the spine chiller, not only is it not operating but I can't even find it. maybe it's not an opto.

I greatly appreciate your help man, if you can find the switch maybe I can figure out what I should be looking for or what's going on with this....



ahh crap, I looked at mine wrong. It's in pieces, so I'm trying to eyeball it all back how it should be. The other switch up there is the one by Bigfoot. It's right next to the divot you were working on. Yes, you have to go all the way up Spine Chiller to get credit.

My bad.

I think that must be it, it's the only opto I see up there as well. I bet that sucker's dirty like the other was.
 
There's a lot of pictures of my Whitewater when it was disassembled and being shopped, in the web page in my signature below. Maybe one of those pics will help.

Wade
 
Thanks for the pics man, I don't see anything on your game that isn't on mine.

I was thinking about it, in order the complete the spine chiller you have to roll through the gate at the start, then at the top you have to roll through the opto by bigfoot.

Gonzo might be right, it would make sense that that is the switch that completes the spine chiller.

If that's the case, I'm still baffled. The switch is working per the test mode, but it doesn't come up as 66. If the ball has to go through that opto at the top by bigfoot, it wouldn't make much sense to add an additional switch on the ramp. Per Gonzo I think I need to concentrate on that opto.

Would someone be willing to take their glass off, start a game, activate the gate at the bottom of the spine chiller then activate the opto by bigfoot to see if it thinks you rolled a spine chiller?

I'll take all the insight I can get. Once I tackle this issue, one of the flipper EOS switches are giving an error, but in test mode seems to be working, but I'm a lot less concerned about that....
 
Last edited:
Taking another look at the switch locations sheet I attached in the first post, Switch 66 is to the left of the VUK, but the opto by bigfoot isn't there.

There are only a handful of optical switches:

Whirlpool Popper
Whirlpool Exit
Lockup Right
Lockup Center
Lockup Left
Left Ramp Main
Disaster Drop Enter

The optical switch by bigfoot obviously doesn't belong to the Lockups, the Whirpool optical switches are under the playfield and Disaster Drop Enter is working like it should. The opto by bigfoot HAS to be 66, left ramp main and wired wrong. There are no other optical switches in the game according to the goofy manual.

Me getting my first pinball 4 days ago combined with the fact that the manual shows the switch left of the VUK and not right I think is what threw me for such a loop.

If someone could throw their game into test mode, poke their finger through that opto by bigfoot and just verify that's 66, left ramp main I hope to be able to take it from there. I just wish I remember what that switch came up as, I'll have to wait until I get home from work.
 
Last edited:
That manual is definatly screwy. I could test mine, but I have so much stuff unplugged I'll get a million errors. I try to reassemble mine tonight, I mean to do it and then something always comes up. I'll make time tonight.
 
Thanks for the offer, I'm hoping it doesn't come down to you having to do that. I'm hoping someone else with an assembled game will chime in first.

With that being said, if I go home and put my finger through the opto and it comes up disaster drop or insanity falls then I think it's safe to say that switch is wired incorrectly. (I guess it could be a board problem too, but from what I'm reading about switches it's unlikely). A big problem would be if I activated the switch and it registers as a switch that doesn't exist anywhere else, then I'm still looking for switch 66.

If nobody has a chance or the means to test before tonight, I'll post or PM you to try and save you any needless effort after I see what that opto registers as.



That manual is definatly screwy. I could test mine, but I have so much stuff unplugged I'll get a million errors. I try to reassemble mine tonight, I mean to do it and then something always comes up. I'll make time tonight.
 
A big problem would be if I activated the switch and it registers as a switch that doesn't exist anywhere else, then I'm still looking for switch 66.

Switch 66 is the opto right behind Bigfoot...where the ball enters the upper playfield via Spine Chiller or the VUK.
 
I just heard from someone else with a White Water who has confirmed that as well.

Thanks for the offer Gonzo but there doesn't appear to be a need for you to put your table back together...

How to fix this I have no idea, I'd better do some reading....

Switch 66 is the opto right behind Bigfoot...where the ball enters the upper playfield via Spine Chiller or the VUK.
 
I just heard from someone else with a White Water who has confirmed that as well.

Thanks for the offer Gonzo but there doesn't appear to be a need for you to put your table back together...

How to fix this I have no idea, I'd better do some reading....

OK, so - you have the opto that SHOULD be 66, right? When you run your finger thru it in test mode, what does the DMD say? Is it telling you it's a different switch? Which one?
 
Yes, I have an opto that should read 66, it is reading something else. The DMD is telling me a different switch when I run my finger through it. What switch that is, I don't remember, I'm going to look when I get home.

I've starting reading the section called "Phantom Switch Closures: a Shorted or Mis-Wired Switch" from pinrepair.com. Twice the machine has gone tilt for no reason, it sounds like this miswired switch probably has something to do with that as well.



OK, so - you have the opto that SHOULD be 66, right? When you run your finger thru it in test mode, what does the DMD say? Is it telling you it's a different switch? Which one?
 
I just heard from someone else with a White Water who has confirmed that as well.

Thanks for the offer Gonzo but there doesn't appear to be a need for you to put your table back together...

How to fix this I have no idea, I'd better do some reading....

Meh, I'm putting it back together anyway. :) I cleaned and waxed all those areas under the mini, got a few LED's in, along with the Cliffy it's going to play much better than before. Glad you got your answer though.
 
Nice! I'll do cliffy's protector, but like you I want to play it for a while.

From what I've read so far it's looking like the problem could be the LM339 chip on the optical board, and I'm not sure I fully understand what pin repair is saying.

From pinrepair:
"If there are phantom switches, the first and easiest thing to try is to disconnect the power to the under-the-playfield optic board. When the power plug is disconnected (usually the plug nearest the row of diodes) from the optic board (you can do this with the game on), the LED soldered to the optic board will turn off. Now re-test the switches. If the problem has changed, there is a bad optic board! If the problem has not changed, plug the optic board back in and move on."

Well, if I remove the power to the optic board, the switch shouldn't work at all. How can this help me test if my optical switch's problem is the optical board? Is this referring to a standard switch that might be being interfered with by the optical board?

There isn't much insite, the only insite is to replace all the LM339 chips on the optical board.

From pinrepair:
"If the optic board is at fault, replace ALL the LM339 chips on this board (there are usually two or three of them). These chips can not be tested easily. It is just easier to replace them all (use sockets!). "

I see that radio shack sells the LM339:
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062593

I don't want to be replacing IC's if I don't have to, what else should I be looking for?
Meh, I'm putting it back together anyway. :) I cleaned and waxed all those areas under the mini, got a few LED's in, along with the Cliffy it's going to play much better than before. Glad you got your answer though.
 
Well, I pulled the optical board and it was a MESS. It was very obvious the LM339 had been attempted to be pulled before, the traces were a disaster etc. I tried to fix it, now I'm opticalboardless.

I did some checking and they aren't that bad, but a REAL bummer...
 
Back
Top Bottom