Which HAPP joystick to get

Tighe

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Hi All,

I recently got a 4 slot MVS. The original joysticks are those horrible Happ Super Joysticks with the levers on the switches. :eek:

I had what I believe to be a HAPP Ultimate Joystick and replaced player 1 with it. :004_ssmile: The difference in games like Samurai Shodown is like night and day, I can actually jump diagonally now!

This replacement stick is meant for another project so I am planning on buying 2 more replacements, and I just wondered if anyone knows if the Competition Joystick is better or worse? It also has the square 8-way nylon actuator like the ultimate, but by looking at the exploded view I can't see anything else that would make it any better or worse. :confused:
 
i have never knowingly used the ultimates so i cant compare them to the comp sticks
but i like the comps

tho i actually preffer the supers for fighting games (i have them in my 2 slot)they are more fluid compared to the ult and comp sticks i have found the sticks with square actuators stick on the diagional's

lizard lick i think has the stick even cheaper but they have been pretty backlogged recently
 
I got a pair of the competition sticks from groovygamegear for a street fighter cab. Picked them up there because they are apparently swapping the stock actuators out with ones that work better performance-wise. Haven't gotten them into the cab yet, but hopefully will have done so by tuesday/wednesday and will be testing the hell out of them on wednesday when a friend of mine comes into town. If nobody's got feedback before then, I'll post with how well they work. FWIW, I haven't used the ultimates as far as I'm aware.

*e* Just looked, the white actuators do have a square footprint, but looking at happ's diagram it looks like the corners going from top to bottom are slightly beveled, like not a straight line up and down, not sure if that'll make a difference for diagonals.
 
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I got a pair of the competition sticks from groovygamegear for a street fighter cab. Picked them up there because they are apparently swapping the stock actuators out with ones that work better performance-wise. Haven't gotten them into the cab yet, but hopefully will have done so by tuesday/wednesday and will be testing the hell out of them on wednesday when a friend of mine comes into town. If nobody's got feedback before then, I'll post with how well they work. FWIW, I haven't used the ultimates as far as I'm aware.

*e* Just looked, the white actuators do have a square footprint, but looking at happ's diagram it looks like the corners going from top to bottom are slightly beveled, like not a straight line up and down, not sure if that'll make a difference for diagonals.

Yes I can tell you that the actuators on the Ultimate are square then taper off, but not anywhere near where they would make contact with the switches. I will take some pictures of my Ultimate tonight and post.
 
yup said that in my last post
lizard lick has been really backloged latley so its hit or miss if you get your order in a timley manner + groovy game gear has the tron and satans hollow repro handles and groovy game gear just rocks all around
 
I like the Competition better than the Ultimates. They feel a lot smoother and not as stiff. I never had a problem with the Supers though. The levers on the microswitches actually provide for a much smoother circular motion.
 
I have a couple of competitions and they are good but from things I have seen online. it seems most people prefer supers over competitions. the levers on the siwtches can be tweaked a bit to dial in a nice feel. Im thinkng about getting a couple of supers myself.
If you are looking for that real precise feel for fighters, you may want to look at Sanwa or Seimietsu.
Lizardlick.com sells all 3 brands.
Some time to really get the feel you want you can tweak things like putting in a heavier spring or something.
Good luck
 
I have a couple of competitions and they are good but from things I have seen online. it seems most people prefer supers over competitions. the levers on the siwtches can be tweaked a bit to dial in a nice feel. Im thinkng about getting a couple of supers myself.
If you are looking for that real precise feel for fighters, you may want to look at Sanwa or Seimietsu.
Lizardlick.com sells all 3 brands.
Some time to really get the feel you want you can tweak things like putting in a heavier spring or something.
Good luck

I have to disagree about the Supers, every time I used one it was almost impossible to hit the diagonal, maybe if the actuator were larger...

The dreamcast offical arcade sticks have the Sanwa 8 way stick in it, but I found at fighting games I personally perform better with the Ultimate. I completely understand about the choppyness of performing a 1/4 circle witha square actuator, but in the end it is more consistent.

Also I want to keep the MVS closer in appearance to original, so the sanwa would not do. But I do like the rounded rectanle restrictor plate in the sanwa. Arrgh decisions decisions!
 
I like the Competition better than the Ultimates. They feel a lot smoother and not as stiff. I never had a problem with the Supers though. The levers on the microswitches actually provide for a much smoother circular motion.


Thanks for weighing in on my question, I figured that the Competitions are supposed to be better as they are more expensive. I wonder what the mechanical difference is...
 
Thanks for weighing in on my question, I figured that the Competitions are supposed to be better as they are more expensive. I wonder what the mechanical difference is...
No real mechanical difference other than the shaft being a lot thicker on the Competition than the Super. Most people prefer the IL competition sticks over the Happ ones. From what I've seen the actuator is smaller and not as tight on the shaft making for a smoother circular motion on the IL stick. On the Happ the actuator is larger which is better for activating the cherry switches but the actuator not rotating on the shaft makes for a stiffer not as smooth circular motion.

I think that sanding the hole in the happ actuator to make it slightly larger and applying a bit of silicone grease would make for a better stick than the IL.
 
No real mechanical difference other than the shaft being a lot thicker on the Competition than the Super. Most people prefer the IL competition sticks over the Happ ones. From what I've seen the actuator is smaller and not as tight on the shaft making for a smoother circular motion on the IL stick. On the Happ the actuator is larger which is better for activating the cherry switches but the actuator not rotating on the shaft makes for a stiffer not as smooth circular motion.

I think that sanding the hole in the happ actuator to make it slightly larger and applying a bit of silicone grease would make for a better stick than the IL.

Thanks, but the question is the difference between the Ultimate and the Competiton. Both have square actuators -- and the Ultimate is slightly cheaper. I have Ultimates and need to decide between an Ultimate or a Competition. I have been also conisdering a Sanwa 8T

I know I hate the Supers with their levers.
 
Competition feels way better than the Ultimate. When my ultimates no longer work I will replace them with competition sticks.
 
From what I have read, the vast majority of folks prefer the Comps vs the Ultimates... I've seen the Ultimates described as being a pretty "terrible stick" more than once.
 
in applications where I've seen the Ultimates used, the shaft rides higher (longer spacer) and this creates more imprecise controls. you can run them lower too, but overall I've found them just to be not as precise as the Competition ones I've used.

the type of spring you use matters too. if the spring is real stiff, it's gonna be a major chore to operate. if the spring is too loose, you're going to have floaty controls.

on more than one occasion, I've bought new Competition joysticks and replaced the black actuators that comes with them with older white ones. couple times I've made some hybrids. :)

I'm running black actuators on my KI2 though, they're not bad. you'll sometimes run into a situation with the manufacturing process where the actuator is really tight on the shaft, and if you rotate the stick, the actuator will turn with it (imagine it just being diagonal -- when it hits a switch again, you feel it). this is an easy fix if you have a dremel or equivalent with sanding hardware. the E-clip obviously holds the stick in place, it's ok if the actuator floats on it, so just sand away on the shaft a LITTLE BIT and the black or white ones will be fine. you just want it where the actuator doesn't TURN when you twist the joystick around.

during its original run, every KI machine I ever played on had IMPOSSIBLE circular motion control. I was afraid it was the game itself, but when I put my new blue Competition joysticks in, I was amazed at how precise the controls were. the joysticks that came with my KI2 looked original, they had a very weird square actuator, and extremely stiff springs. if that was the factory design they had, then it explains much. :) didn't Midway use a lot of Wico controls back then?

my Street Fighter Alpha x cab runs Ultimate joysticks, and they're VERY broken in (very loose springs) -- makes for fairly random circular motions, but I've never had it totally bomb out on me when trying to do hurricane kicks or uppercuts or whatever. it's just not AS good as my Competition joysticks. (I've replaced the switches on these too)

I'd never seen a Super joystick before until I got my showcase cab the other day. what a terrible design. who truly believes those are sufficient for fighting game applications, SERIOUSLY.
 
in applications where I've seen the Ultimates used, the shaft rides higher (longer spacer) and this creates more imprecise controls. you can run them lower too, but overall I've found them just to be not as precise as the Competition ones I've used.

the type of spring you use matters too. if the spring is real stiff, it's gonna be a major chore to operate. if the spring is too loose, you're going to have floaty controls.

on more than one occasion, I've bought new Competition joysticks and replaced the black actuators that comes with them with older white ones. couple times I've made some hybrids. :)

I'm running black actuators on my KI2 though, they're not bad. you'll sometimes run into a situation with the manufacturing process where the actuator is really tight on the shaft, and if you rotate the stick, the actuator will turn with it (imagine it just being diagonal -- when it hits a switch again, you feel it). this is an easy fix if you have a dremel or equivalent with sanding hardware. the E-clip obviously holds the stick in place, it's ok if the actuator floats on it, so just sand away on the shaft a LITTLE BIT and the black or white ones will be fine. you just want it where the actuator doesn't TURN when you twist the joystick around.

during its original run, every KI machine I ever played on had IMPOSSIBLE circular motion control. I was afraid it was the game itself, but when I put my new blue Competition joysticks in, I was amazed at how precise the controls were. the joysticks that came with my KI2 looked original, they had a very weird square actuator, and extremely stiff springs. if that was the factory design they had, then it explains much. :) didn't Midway use a lot of Wico controls back then?

my Street Fighter Alpha x cab runs Ultimate joysticks, and they're VERY broken in (very loose springs) -- makes for fairly random circular motions, but I've never had it totally bomb out on me when trying to do hurricane kicks or uppercuts or whatever. it's just not AS good as my Competition joysticks. (I've replaced the switches on these too)

I'd never seen a Super joystick before until I got my showcase cab the other day. what a terrible design. who truly believes those are sufficient for fighting game applications, SERIOUSLY.

Thanks you just made my decision for me to get competions over the Ultimate! :) I agree, really cannot imagine the supers ever being good for any game where that requires you to press diagonals! Maybe if one made the actuator larger, but I can flip open my MVS (has supers) and look at the actuator and diagonals are very difficult to do even when you can see the switches!

I have another question for you since you play mostly fighting games. Which buttons do you use, convex or concave? Personally I like the look of the convex buttons as they are original to the USA MVS, and it is easy to know if your fingers are on the center of the buttons. But I cane see the advantage of the convex competition buttons with the MVS button layout. Having B,C,D in a line with A under the thumb gives me hand cramps in fighting games.

Also do you prefer horizontal microswitch or vertical? I noticed that most Japanese button manufacturers use vertical switches. While that gives the button a short throw it also makes it wobblely and subject to jamming. I aso find that the vertical switches wear out quicker.

What do you think?
 
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Thanks you just made my decision for me to get competions over the Ultimate! :) I agree, really cannot imagine the supers ever being good for any game where that requires you to press diagonals! Maybe if one made the actuator larger, but I can flip open my MVS (has supers) and look at the actuator and diagonals are very difficult to do even when you can see the switches!

I have another question for you since you play mostly fighting games. Which buttons do you use, convex or concave? Personally I like the look of the convex buttons as they are original to the USA MVS, and it is easy to know if your fingers are on the center of the buttons. But I cane see the advantage of the convex competition buttons with the MVS button layout. Having B,C,D in a line with A under the thumb gives me hand cramps in fighting games.

Also do you prefer horizontal microswitch or vertical? I noticed that most Japanese button manufacturers use vertical switches. While that gives the button a short throw it also makes it wobblely and subject to jamming. I aso find that the vertical switches wear out quicker.

What do you think?

honestly, I tried to preserve all the original buttons in my games. my KI was converted to Tekken and was 1 button short. the SF Alpha 2 cab I got had what appeared to be the SAME style blue buttons, so I ganked em from there to make my KI have all "original" buttons. same for my KI2, I kept the original buttons (though I bought that one whole -- the KI I had to effectively "restore"), and my MK cab I kept the original buttons from an MK4 control panel I bought on ebay.

if the buttons get all gunked up or look shitty, I completely disassemble them and set the springs aside, then I throw the plastic parts in HOT water with dishsoap, let them soak for awhile, and then pull them out and use an old toothbrush with windex to clean them out.

to answer your question direct though, I do not like the Happ Competition buttons (the rounded top kind -- or "Japanese" style as I refer to them, cause they look like the Sanwas) -- if I were to replace them, I would use the other kind (Ultimate pushbutton, I think they're called) -- which is kind of confusing, cause I prefer the Competition joystick over the Ultimate. :)

all my games run horizontal switches. I don't recall seeing the vertical switch kind, not since I was a kid when we had a pool hall with all video games -- even still, a lot of the cool games I saw the insides of ran leafswitches instead!

I really should take pictures of my collection someday. the part I enjoy the most is cleaning my games.
 
if you do get the competition joy get it from here they are about the cheapest i have found anywhere
http://groovygamegear.com/webstore/...ath=65&zenid=64a866d78eea3489523de5537ee58b88


I ended up buying them from groovygamegear, but I am a little bummed cause they are in New York, and since I am in NY I had to pay sales tax. I really wanted to get the convex competition buttons, but only HAPP sells them, and they have a minimum order of $25 and they don't you what they will charge you for shipping.

After I order I put the order in at Lizard Lick and it was cheaper even with the competiton buttons! Argh! Maybe I should cancel my order.
 
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