What is up with Sega Gremlin Leg Levelers?

jacklick

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Or lack there of on games like Carnival, Frogger, etc. Most US made cabs I have seen have these tacked on nylon sliders yet there are holes and t-nuts, mounted from inside, for leg levelers. I have never seen a cab with leg levelers installed...only the nylon sliders.

Also it seems the t-nuts are likely 1/4-20 threads instead of 3/8-16 you typically see. Any ideas on what was going on here. Leg levelers optional? Nylon sliders standard? Operators just nailed in furniture sliders?

Do most of you install new plates and leg levelers or just keep the nylon sliders?


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Both my Frogger and Carnival have the sliders and unused t-nuts like above. I keep meaning to put real levelers on but haven't gotten any with a smaller thread.
 
Mine had the sliders but they were totally worn, and my factory t-nuts ended up needing a 5/16 leg leveler. I had 3/8 leg levelers and T-nuts so I just installed new ones.

Another question/observation: The t-nuts on my cabinet were installed from the inside of the cabinet, meaning if you put in leg levelers (and used the factory t-nuts) the weight of the cabinet would push the t-nuts right out of the base, really weird?
 
possibly those were for shipping purposes and not for leg levers

i like to use the large square metal plates for installing levers on most any games, good distribution of the weight and with four screws holding them in place they are extremely secure
 
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Another question/observation: The t-nuts on my cabinet were installed from the inside of the cabinet, meaning if you put in leg levelers (and used the factory t-nuts) the weight of the cabinet would push the t-nuts right out of the base, really weird?

I think this is fine as you are supposed to use another nut to tighten against the bottom of cab which will pull the t-nut toward the bottom. the weight of cabinet is then on the nut not the t-nut. Someone posted explaining this way better but I can't find it.

I still think it is super odd they all have t-nuts but not a single report of a true leg leveler. Who worked at Gremlin and can solve this mystery? probably a cost savings thing but would be hilarious if someone actually screwed this up in production/supply chain and the inexpensive fix was furniture sliders.
 
I'm not sure I agree with that. It looks more likely that these were to keep the game from shifting during shipping.

While the bottom appears to be plywood rather than MDF or OSB, it would still be a good practice to have a washer to distribute the load across the plywood, and I mean a BIG washer (fender washer).

The point force of that nut will have a tendency to work through MDF and OSB quickly, and through plywood more slowly. Adding a fender washer to each point will prevent that.

I like the idea of using a large, flat metal plate for the leg levelers. Around a 3" x 3" or 4" x 4" should do nicely. Then you take that point force (assume game weighs 200 lbs, 200 / 4 = 50 lbs per leg leveler

50 lbs / 3/8" = LOTS of PSI

50 lbs / 9" or 16" = Lots Less PSI on the connection.
 
I'm not sure I agree with that. It looks more likely that these were to keep the game from shifting during shipping.

While the bottom appears to be plywood rather than MDF or OSB, it would still be a good practice to have a washer to distribute the load across the plywood, and I mean a BIG washer (fender washer).

The point force of that nut will have a tendency to work through MDF and OSB quickly, and through plywood more slowly. Adding a fender washer to each point will prevent that.

I like the idea of using a large, flat metal plate for the leg levelers. Around a 3" x 3" or 4" x 4" should do nicely. Then you take that point force (assume game weighs 200 lbs, 200 / 4 = 50 lbs per leg leveler

50 lbs / 3/8" = LOTS of PSI

50 lbs / 9" or 16" = Lots Less PSI on the connection.

fwiw, I am not trying to be "right" or "wrong", just theorizing for fun. I agree with your idea of a large washer on bottom (I was thinking 2-3") and thought that would make sense to use in lots of cases. The point force with t-nuts installed on the bottom would be relatively the same and manufacturers did that, right?. I don't know if this discounts the theory they were there for leg levelers...just mho.

So let's explore how would these be used for shipping. You think they had pre-drilled boards/rails and secured from the bottom? If they put on a pallet and secured from bottom, the pallet would definitely need exact pre-drilled holes or you would never find the t-nut holes. If not, I don't know how these t-nuts could be used efficiently to secure during shipping. Also, if this made lots of sense, why wouldn't we see this in all other vendor cabinets.

edit>>I found the thread about weight being on the locking nut vs "t-nut" I think we have another "myth-buster" worthy conversation here :)
https://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=414533
 
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yes, for casters - not for leg levers

So what is good for a caster is not good for the leg leveler? I am ready to be convinced but need some proof or something.

I offer...When t-nuts were installed on the outside, it could have just have been for convenience/speed of assembly; eliminated the need for maybe a larger washer and locking nut for cost savings. They might have just been installed last so inside bottom of cab was inaccessible. I haven't seen anything beyond conjecture that says it is quote the "right" or "best" way.
 
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a caster has a bearing plate which rests flush to in our example the bottom of the cabinet, this plate holds the ball bearings in place (which allow the castor to rotate) and provides a support plate for what ever the caster is holding up, so with a castor you are trying to secure the caster as tightly as possible to the bottom of the cabinet and you want the bearing plate flush to the wood - only way to do that is to put the T nut inside of the cabinet. some use flat washers & nuts inside the cabinet to secure the casters in lieu of a T nut
 
... only way to do that is to put the T nut inside of the cabinet. some use flat washers & nuts inside the cabinet to secure the casters in lieu of a T nut

Thanks for the detailed explanation. Regarding quote...are you referring to the only way to do this with a "leg leveler" with t-nut on inside is to use larger washer on bottom (bearing plate function) and the "locking nut" fit tightly which will pull t-nut toward it. If so, I am in agreement with you.

I can see why manufacturers didn't do this way (listed above) but it sounds like it would be better than stapled t-nut on bottom, which may be the original purpose of the Gremlin cab design. We will never know but I enjoyed thinking about it a bit more today. Now to play some games.
 
I believe they either intended it as an option for casters on the bottom as an upgrade or option at one point, but obviously is more expensive to produce every cabinet with them already on, so hence the cheap sliders. Also it's conceivable they reused subassemblies that already had them added, maybe from another product that originally called for casters. That's the only thing that makes sense to me, it's obviously more expensive to add a tnut plus a leveler, washer and still need a nut on the inside, seems like a washer on the inside would have been cheaper than using a tnut.
 
Revisiting thread as I was redoing a Williams cabinet leg levelers yesterday and found it interesting how they mounted the t-nuts. They basically mounted them, in a 3/4" square piece of wood then attached wood with t-nut flat portion (back) facing cabinet bottom of cabinet "upside down". They did take the time to recess the back of t-nut into the bottom of the cabinet so it is flush. Too bad the stapled in pieces of wood suck and they get ripped out easily.

Anyway they are basically mounted in the same direction as gremlin's t-nuts but do have the bottom of the cabinet that prevents them from being pushed up and out of hole.

I do like the theory of maybe gremlin intended the t-nuts (5/16" or 1/4" <<we need confirmation) to use with casters. There is definitely proof in thread of casters using t-nuts mounted from inside. Probably easier to find 1/4" or 5/16 caster than leg leveler too.

Another theory is some furniture/cabinet maker put these t-nuts in, then gremlin not having a a cheap source for "non 3/8" leg levelers, fired the dude, cut their loses and put sliders on.
 
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