What are these cables for on my WG6100?

MannyTC

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I rebuilt the boards on my 6100 and when putting back together I remembered that there were two cables not plugged into anything when I removed the monitor from my Star Wars cab. The one on the top right is three pin and has a single wire going to it that comes from under the shield on right of monitor as shown with the up arrow. There is a jumper from that pin to the second pin and nothing in the third pin. The one laying at the bottom is two pin and the wires appear to be spliced into the degauss behind it. Any ideas?
 

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Someone fitted an Amplifone monitor into that 6100 frame

Amplifones use them 2 x plugs
The 2 pin is the Degauss coil, and the 3 pin is the DAG wire

You will need to convert it back.
 
I do have a two pin cable coming out of the right side which is plugged into the coil pins on the deflection pcb. Other than those two extra cables everything appears to be stock WG6100. There are WG stickers on everything.

Update: I looked closer at the tube and I see a sticker underneath the shield that says Manufactured by Atari, Inc. and also see tube manufactured by Rauland so I guess you are correct this is a tube from an ampliphone monitor?

So is it the case that the white two pin cable coming out through the hole on the right side of tube is not hooked to anything? It looks like there may be two different degauss wires around the tube so maybe they put in the original one that was on the WG tube so they could plug into the deflection board? Both degauss cables have continuity between their own two pins but not to the other connector so am I safe to assume that there are two degauss and the one currently hooked up to the deflection pcb should be ok to use?

What do I need to do to convert if anything? Also when adjusting voltages etc do I do anything different since the tube does not match the original one?
 
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The degauss one might physically plug on to the degauss header, which is the 2-pin connector in the left back corner of the deflection board (the way the deflection board sits in the monitor, looking at it from behind, as shown in the pics.)

The normal 6100 degauss coil has a 2-pin connector that normally goes there. I'm not sure if the Amp connector will physically fit over the pins, but someone might have tried running it that way. If it does slip on (either way), it technically will work, though you may want to get a better connector, depending on how well it fits.

(EDIT: Nevermind. I just checked with my Amp and a 6100 board, and it won't fit. But those two wires do need to go there, so any reliable way of connecting them will work.)

The dag wire just connects to the frame of the 6100. You can screw the wire to any of the holes in the bottom aluminum frame, if you replace that connector with a 'metal ring terminal connector' (see ebay).

What is the model number of the monitor tube? If it's the higher-res tube, it might give you a slightly better picture than the standard 6100 tube, as some of the Amp monitors used tubes with a finer dot pitch, which gives a sharper picture.

But as Dez said, it looks like someone tried running an Amp tube with a 6100 boardset, which can be done. Unless there are serial numbers on any of the parts (and the other parts in the cab), it will be hard to know which parts are original to the cab.
 
Since it looks like there are two coils around the tube do I really need to use the one that is not currently connected (the AMP connector) as shown in the pic or should it be OK to use the coil that goes to the normal WG connector that does fit on the deflection PCB? If so, is it safe to assume that the connector currently going to the PCB actually connects to a coil since I cannot visually confirm but can confirm that there is continuity from pin 1 to 2?

The DAG spring already appears to be grounded to the frame but I can go ahead and also swap the connector on the wire out to a ring terminal and screw that onto the frame.

I checked the tube model and it is M48AAW00X WNA. Is that the medium-res tube?
 
Oh, ok. If there are two coils, it sounds like someone rigged that tube up for an either-or situation, to work with an Amp or 6100 setup.

If one of the coils already connects to the 2-pin connector marked 'COIL' on the back left corner of the 6100 deflection board, then you don't need the other coil, and could even remove it from the tube if you wanted.

The M48AAW00X is the higher res tube, usually used with Amplifiones. I've personally never run one with a 6100 boardset, but it does have a finer dot pitch, so the image should be a little sharper than the usual 19VLUP22 6100 tube.

The Amp deflection board also supposedly can draw a little faster than the 6100 board, so this, in combination with the finer dot pitch, results in a better picture. But the speed difference is only noticeable on games like Star Wars and Major Havoc. For other games the speed difference may not be noticeable, but the dot pitch should make it a bit sharper.

Also, it should be noted that that 'Amp' (Rauland) tube is a 90-degree tube (and its associated yoke), but the 6100 19VLUP22 tubes are 100-degree, and need the associated 100-degree yokes. As long as you have the correct yoke for the tube, you can run them with either boardset, but you can't mix and match tube and yoke between 90 and 100 degrees. Here's a related thread:

https://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=167429
 
Ok this makes more sense now. So really all I need to do is connect the DAG wire to the frame and I should be good to go correct? I am assuming that the tube and yoke are matched since everything was working when I bought the game.

Anything else special I should be concerned about with this mixed setup when adjusting voltages, etc?
 
Looks like you're mostly ok. In your original pic, there's a gray wire connected to the bottom aluminum plate of the frame. Where does that one go? That's usually the dag spring on normal 6100 setups, but it's not clear from your pic, as there is also an Amp dag wire on the right side of the tube, it looks like.

There are also normally 4 other ground wires, coming from the neck board and the harness that connects the 3 boards together, that also get connected to the frame via ring terminal connectors, in normal 6100 setups. You'll want to make sure you have those as well, as sometimes the ones from the neck board break off. There should be 1 black and 1 gray from the neck board, and two more blacks from the harness.

Also, makes sure you have the 3 single wires connected, that go from the neck board to the deflection board. There are single-pin connectors on the front right region of the deflection board, one each for black, brown, and blu/white (going left to right). They are labeled on the deflection board.

Also, if you want to bring your monitor up in the safest and most careful way possible, see my detailed guide, here:

https://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=404600

It's best to follow all steps exactly, as there are many things that can go wrong during installation (like broken wires, missing grounds, etc), which can snowball and damage multiple boards, in some of the worst cases, if you miss them. The guide takes you through slowly, checking each step along the way, so if there are issues, you can catch them before doing damage.
 
I cannot tell where that gray wire on the frame goes without removing the tube. Chances are whoever did the tube swap wired the gray wire to the spring since they went through the trouble to put the WG deguass coil on. I can still ground the black dag to the frame to be sure.

The neckboard was removed for the pic and do have the 4 ground wires from there screwed onto the frame and the single wires connected to the deflection PCB.

I already had your guide :adore: printed out and sitting on the bench ready to go but wanted to be sure about these other wires before starting the steps. Thanks for helping out with such detailed info!

One more question. The anode cup seems to sit high as the clip doesn't seem to go in far enough into the hole to allow the cup to go down more. If I put some pressure on the cup it does go down and spread out but it pops back up. Am I doing something wrong or is it the case I need to put some dielectric grease to promote better suction to stay down?
 
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You can't look down behind the HV cage to see where that gray wire goes? You can also remove the HV cage, if needed, and don't need to remove the tube. There are sometimes two screws in the back, behind the cage, holding the cage to the bottom aluminum plate (which require a long socket extender, as it's tight back there). However they are usually missing, as they're a pain to get back in, and aren't really needed. Then there are two more screws on the front, and one on the side, and the whole cage comes out.

It's not a huge deal, but you probably should make sure of where the gray wire goes, and just make sure if it isn't connected, that it doesn't touch the bottlecap transistor that is mounted on the back of the cage, as it could short it out.

You should also replace the mica insulator on that transistor with a silpad, while you have the cage out (or at least replace the thermal grease, as it's usually dried out, though I prefer to use the silpads, which don't use grease).
 
I couldn't easily tell where the gray wire went while the HV cage was out when I was rebuilding it. I just removed it again and the wire was going in underneath the amp degauss coil. I pulled the coil out a bit and can see that the gray wire is soldered to the spring.

When replacing all of the bottlecaps I did use silpads instead of the mica insulators.

Any advice on the anode clip/cup question?
 
Oh sorry, missed that. (FYI, I personally believe it's better to just make a new post instead of editing an existing one to add questions, as people don't get email notifications about edits, so that's why I didn't see the anode question. Anyway, just a tip.)

If the anode isn't sitting tight, you can pull the anode wire further out of the back of the suction cup, to pull the anode further down into the cup, which should make it sit tighter, as sometimes the wire gets pulled forward, out the front of the cup, which creates the extra slop.

Also, the original 6100 anode clips have a round piece of metal on them, with a slot in it (which slips over the 2 prongs), which helps hold it tight, and covers the hole. The repro flybacks don't have this piece, and those ones fit tight (if you make sure the anode is pulled down far enough into the suction cup). But if you have an original fly, and it's missing the round piece, that might also partly be why it's looser. But either way if you make sure the anode is pulled down tight into the cup, and you get both prongs in the hole, it'll be snug, which is how you want it, as you don't want it accidentally popping out with 20,000 volts on it.

When I install anodes, I always fold the cup upwards and pinch it between two fingers, then put one prong in the hole, then use my HV probe to push the other one into the hole (or push it with my finger, always keeping the suction cup between my finger and the anode + hole). The hole can build up a charge after sitting for a while, if the anode is disconnected, and I've been zapped enough times such that I never touch a hole without a piece of rubber in between. (Good life advice, in general.) ;)
 
I understand about the edit. Thought I did it quick enough but forgot about the email notifications. Thanks for the tip!

Anode is on tight now. Helped to use the probe to get the other prong in like you said. Next step is to start up using your guide.

Also, I figured out a little more on the original configuration of things. I was able to clean the sticker on the tube enough to see it is marked with the same serial as the cab. I guess the amp chassis failed at some point and someone removed the amp pcbs and took the original tube and put it into a WG frame with WG chassis.
 
Sweet. Nice work on figuring out the serial numbers. Most people don't seem to care today, but 30-50 years from now, if these games go the way of classic cars and other collectibles, original serial numbers may matter.

You also might consider converting it back to an Amp setup, longer-term, since you have the tube and yoke already (arguably the hardest part). As this is for a Star Wars, you will see difference in image quality, particularly on the Death Star explosion, and it will increase the overall value of the cab. Just a thought.

If you need any more help as you go through the guide, let me know.
 
Thanks again for your guidance. I will give some thought to converting back to to full amp setup after done with everything else.

Just to share, the serial of the cab and tube is UR00102 and the game PCBs are all matched with serial UR00142. Pretty early in the run. If I remember correctly there were over 10,000 made.
 
Very interesting. It's nice that they left the Amp stuff on the tube and added the 6100 stuff - will make it easier for you to switch to the faster Amp boards if you decide to do so. The risky part will be removing the white plastic pin support from the end of the neck of the tube - I just tried that on an old TV tube and there was so much silicone (or whatever) that no matter how careful I was I broke the neck.

Or you could order a repro Amp neck board from dezbaz and see if he has the 6100 style connector so you could leave the support piece on the tube.

Anyway, here's a diagram of the connectors for both monitors, in case it's useful to anyone:

http://www.gauck.com/arcade/wg6100/color vectors.pdf
 
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