What’s wrong with my V2000/G05 B&W vector monitor?

dag strap is rusty AF which is par for the course with this machine; i suppose i can remove and clean it. dag itself looks good.

it's not just the arcing that has me concerned about the tube but also the almost-boiling noise. not sure i've ever heard that from a monitor before.

i might do the tube and/or board swap if cleaning the dag strap doesn't work. and i'll probably see if i can start sourcing a replacement tube. yay. i'll probably use the 19V2000 to test the Battlezone cab and boardset in the meantime.
 
dag strap is rusty AF which is par for the course with this machine; i suppose i can remove and clean it. dag itself looks good.

it's not just the arcing that has me concerned about the tube but also the almost-boiling noise. not sure i've ever heard that from a monitor before.

i might do the tube and/or board swap if cleaning the dag strap doesn't work. and i'll probably see if i can start sourcing a replacement tube. yay. i'll probably use the 19V2000 to test the Battlezone cab and boardset in the meantime.


Here's another recent thread involving sizzling noises on a b/w vector. FWIW.


Basically, any type of electrical sizzling means something that runs a fair amount of power isn't making solid contact at some point, and you have arcing.

Post a video of the boiling noise, and where you think it's coming from?
 
yeah, that's what i was thinking. sent it to a friend of mine who said the same; if it wasn't, the arcing would be yellow/orange. if it'd spent any time with monitors in the last decade i'd probably have remembered this but it's been 95% pins since that's what locations want and earns.

got a lead on an NOS tube but going to try to find something less minty since this cab is a project and [short of a complete restoration] will never be very nice.
 
I have been using these, though Digikey says they're NLA. I'm sure there are equivalents out there. You can use sealed 3316 types as well, i.e., the same ones as for the vector linearity pots, if you solder extensions to the legs. I used to do that, before I found these.


I went looking for these this morning, to fix a wiggly V2000. This ebay seller has a bunch.
 
I went looking for these this morning, to fix a wiggly V2000. This ebay seller has a bunch.


Nice! Yep, those are what I still use. They work great.

I replace them on every v2000 I refurb now, as they are just too unreliable. The pots on 802's I don't replace, as those are a little higher quality. But the ones on v2000's are super crappy, and tend to flake out, even after you clean them.
 
ok, now that i've put the G05-802 on the back burner...

19V2000 in a cheap Asteroids that i picked up. had a picture that faded in and out; bad solder joints on the deflection board headers. replaced the headers and did a cap kit with bottlecaps. hadn't worked on a b&w vector for about a decade and forgot about using a 1Mohm 3w resistor inline when discharging. within a few hours after getting it back together, it starts blooming since i toasted the HV diode.

got a replacement HV diode from Arcade Shop and installed with a thorough cleaning of the boots and springs.

turn the game back on and get a nice steady picture for about five seconds. yay! then something changed and suddenly the picture gets quite a bit larger. boo!

i mostly dial it in with the X-Y pots on the PCB, but on any screen with moving objects the picture "breathes" or gets slightly larger and smaller, reacting to movement of objects on the screen (most obvious on the high score screen as it gets pulses in size in time to the "PRESS START" flashing on and off.) if i put it in test mode the image stays steady in size. going between the GAME OVER screen and ENTER YOUR INITIALS the picture gets slightly larger then smaller when you're done entering (maybe due to the amount of text/graphics on the screen?)

B&W vector guide doesn't have an answer for this; closest things are HV diode (just replaced) or bad vertical pot on the deflection board, but it doesn't quite match either. what else could i have blown? did the new HV diode go not-quite-full-blooming bad?
 
ok, now that i've put the G05-802 on the back burner...

19V2000 in a cheap Asteroids that i picked up. had a picture that faded in and out; bad solder joints on the deflection board headers. replaced the headers and did a cap kit with bottlecaps. hadn't worked on a b&w vector for about a decade and forgot about using a 1Mohm 3w resistor inline when discharging. within a few hours after getting it back together, it starts blooming since i toasted the HV diode.

got a replacement HV diode from Arcade Shop and installed with a thorough cleaning of the boots and springs.

turn the game back on and get a nice steady picture for about five seconds. yay! then something changed and suddenly the picture gets quite a bit larger. boo!

i mostly dial it in with the X-Y pots on the PCB, but on any screen with moving objects the picture "breathes" or gets slightly larger and smaller, reacting to movement of objects on the screen (most obvious on the high score screen as it gets pulses in size in time to the "PRESS START" flashing on and off.) if i put it in test mode the image stays steady in size. going between the GAME OVER screen and ENTER YOUR INITIALS the picture gets slightly larger then smaller when you're done entering (maybe due to the amount of text/graphics on the screen?)

B&W vector guide doesn't have an answer for this; closest things are HV diode (just replaced) or bad vertical pot on the deflection board, but it doesn't quite match either. what else could i have blown? did the new HV diode go not-quite-full-blooming bad?

The connections to your HV diode are not good enough. A breathing/blooming picture that is expanding in both directions means the HV is dropping and not stable.

The design of the HV diodes on these is lousy, because the springs only contact the curled-up leads of the diode at a single point. This is bad, because if that point isn't PERFECTLY clean, it'll turn resistive. And when you pass 15,000V through a resistor (even at a relatively small current), that generates a lot of heat. The same goes for where the springs contact the metal cups inside the boots, which also need to be bare-metal spotless.

The proper solution is to solder the springs to the diode. This is tricky, because the springs are steel, so you have to sand or file the ends of the springs (and the diode leads) to bare metal, then get them very hot for the solder to stick. Also use very good solder, Kester 44 or 245.

I have a post about this here:


This is one of the most tricky repairs in this hobby, so don't feel bad if you can't get it to work at first. If you can't figure it out, you can always send it in.
 
The connections to your HV diode are not good enough. A breathing/blooming picture that is expanding in both directions means the HV is dropping and not stable.

The design of the HV diodes on these is lousy, because the springs only contact the curled-up leads of the diode at a single point. This is bad, because if that point isn't PERFECTLY clean, it'll turn resistive. And when you pass 15,000V through a resistor (even at a relatively small current), that generates a lot of heat. The same goes for where the springs contact the metal cups inside the boots, which also need to be bare-metal spotless.

The proper solution is to solder the springs to the diode. This is tricky, because the springs are steel, so you have to sand or file the ends of the springs (and the diode leads) to bare metal, then get them very hot for the solder to stick. Also use very good solder, Kester 44 or 245.

I have a post about this here:


This is one of the most tricky repairs in this hobby, so don't feel bad if you can't get it to work at first. If you can't figure it out, you can always send it in.
i chatted with a friend and they recommended looking at the same thing. i'll open it up in the next few days and see what i can do to improve the connection. i had previously replaced one or two HV diodes and i guess i was just more successful with those. oh, and i think i just bought a roll of Kester 44 at the NW Pinball and Arcade Show in June; Pinball Traders had them at $25/roll from what i recall.

i did meter at the deflection board bridge rectifier and got fluctuating voltages on both the + and - legs, between 36 and 38v, also dependent on image movement on screen (in test mode the voltage was relatively stable,) and similar on the out put of D100.
 
i chatted with a friend and they recommended looking at the same thing. i'll open it up in the next few days and see what i can do to improve the connection. i had previously replaced one or two HV diodes and i guess i was just more successful with those. oh, and i think i just bought a roll of Kester 44 at the NW Pinball and Arcade Show in June; Pinball Traders had them at $25/roll from what i recall.

i did meter at the deflection board bridge rectifier and got fluctuating voltages on both the + and - legs, between 36 and 38v, also dependent on image movement on screen (in test mode the voltage was relatively stable,) and similar on the out put of D100.


Yeah, this isn't a deflection or power issue.

The way to test the HV diode after you've cleaned it is to run the game for about 3-5 minutes (or as long as it'll go), then quickly power down, discharge the HV (important), then feel the diode with the back of your finger. (I run the game with the probe on it, so it discharges as soon as I kill power, and I can watch the HV go to zero).

The diode should be cool to the touch. If it isn't, either the connections to it are bad, or the diode itself is bad. You should always try reusing the original diode, because 95% of the time they are still good, and there's no point in throwing a still-good $20 diode in the trash.

Sometimes the diode can be bad if it's original, but that's not likely if you replaced it with a new one. So in this case I'd suspect the connections.
 
Just jumped into Vintage Arcade pool by winning an non-working Asteroids cabinet at auction and have to say this forum is amazing! I was able to get my 802 to partially work, but it would fade in and out and the spotkiller LED was pulsing, so I suspect the deflection board needs a cap kit.

But I am curious if anyone has any pictures of testing the frame transistors on the monitor? I'm not sure I'm doing it correctly as I am only getting a reading on one side of each of the sets of pins. Plus I barley know my way around a multimeter.

*Edit - I found a video showing the transistor test method I was asking about. It's around the 24:30 mark, in case anyone else wants to see how the test is done.


Also the 5amp fuse at F100 was blown, not sure if that is related.

Any advice is greatly appreciated.

Thank you!
 
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Yes. Blown power fuses almost always means blown rectifier. (And if any legs are shorted, it's bad.)
Been diving into Deflection Board issues and wondering if you have a good source for replacement BR's for an 802? Thanks for all the info already posted!
 
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Been diving into Deflection Board issues and wondering if you have a good source for replacement BR's for an 802? Thanks for all the info already posted!


If your rectifier is bad, you should be able to verify that with a DMM measurement in diode mode. Test it first. If it isn't bad, there is no point in replacing it.

Also, you already found the video above about testing the frame transistors (which is fine), but my 6100 bring-up guide also explains the same procedure. My doc explains it for 6100 color monitors, but v2000 and 802 b/w monitors use the same transistors, and have the same pinouts on the connectors. The only difference is 6100's have three pairs of transistors, and b/w monitors only have two. However each connector is pinned out the same, and the procedure for testing each pair at the connector is the same.

Also, the procedure for testing the game board's XY outputs is also the same for color and b/w monitors, and you should test that in any game that is having monitor issues, to know if the game board is actually the problem. Download the guide here if interested, and see the first few sections:

 

If your rectifier is bad, you should be able to verify that with a DMM measurement in diode mode. Test it first. If it isn't bad, there is no point in replacing it.

Also, you already found the video above about testing the frame transistors (which is fine), but my 6100 bring-up guide also explains the same procedure. My doc explains it for 6100 color monitors, but v2000 and 802 b/w monitors use the same transistors, and have the same pinouts on the connectors. The only difference is 6100's have three pairs of transistors, and b/w monitors only have two. However each connector is pinned out the same, and the procedure for testing each pair at the connector is the same.

Also, the procedure for testing the game board's XY outputs is also the same for color and b/w monitors, and you should test that in any game that is having monitor issues, to know if the game board is actually the problem. Download the guide here if interested, and see the first few sections:

Thank you kindly for the reply! I had already downloaded your PDF (thanks, it's awesome) and dug into it over weekend. I saw in an earlier post you mentioned if you're blowing fuses that the BR was likely bad, but I'll figure out how to properly test it before replacing it.

Cheers!
 
ok, now that i've put the G05-802 on the back burner...

19V2000 in a cheap Asteroids that i picked up. had a picture that faded in and out; bad solder joints on the deflection board headers. replaced the headers and did a cap kit with bottlecaps. hadn't worked on a b&w vector for about a decade and forgot about using a 1Mohm 3w resistor inline when discharging. within a few hours after getting it back together, it starts blooming since i toasted the HV diode.

got a replacement HV diode from Arcade Shop and installed with a thorough cleaning of the boots and springs.

turn the game back on and get a nice steady picture for about five seconds. yay! then something changed and suddenly the picture gets quite a bit larger. boo!

i mostly dial it in with the X-Y pots on the PCB, but on any screen with moving objects the picture "breathes" or gets slightly larger and smaller, reacting to movement of objects on the screen (most obvious on the high score screen as it gets pulses in size in time to the "PRESS START" flashing on and off.) if i put it in test mode the image stays steady in size. going between the GAME OVER screen and ENTER YOUR INITIALS the picture gets slightly larger then smaller when you're done entering (maybe due to the amount of text/graphics on the screen?)

B&W vector guide doesn't have an answer for this; closest things are HV diode (just replaced) or bad vertical pot on the deflection board, but it doesn't quite match either. what else could i have blown? did the new HV diode go not-quite-full-blooming bad?

following up on this as i finally got some time and energy to dig back into it.

after trying a few things like further cleaning the springs, i finally went over the HV board with a magnifying glass. i noticed that one of the legs of C904 didn't look well soldered after my cap kit; tried wiggling it by hand and it moved. resoldered and reinstalled; picture reverted to smaller size and is stable. dialed it back in with the PCB pots and now the image is steady. gonna let it burn for a few hours but i think i figured out my [self-caused] problem.
 
A friend has an Asteroids upright with a G05-802 monitor in it. The PCB on the monitor is an ISSUE 5. It have been working well but recently started getting an up/down shaking of text and objects just on the bottom edge of the screen. Doesn't show up at the top and no issues on the X axis. It doesn't look like blooming since it is only the bottom edge. Game had the original big blue but replacing that made no difference. To help isolate the issue I brought over a spare G05-805 monitor an extension cable. Plugged in that monitor and the picture was perfect. No shaking. So it confirms it is a monitor issue. I did find D608 shorted but replaced that (and D708) but really no difference.

Has anyone see a similar issue with shaking on just one edge of the screen? Really odd. I guess next I can check the frame transistors for the Y axis to see if one is on the way out. If not then probably something else on the deflection board. I doubt it is the yoke but stranger things have happened.
 
A friend has an Asteroids upright with a G05-802 monitor in it. The PCB on the monitor is an ISSUE 5. It have been working well but recently started getting an up/down shaking of text and objects just on the bottom edge of the screen. Doesn't show up at the top and no issues on the X axis. It doesn't look like blooming since it is only the bottom edge. Game had the original big blue but replacing that made no difference. To help isolate the issue I brought over a spare G05-805 monitor an extension cable. Plugged in that monitor and the picture was perfect. No shaking. So it confirms it is a monitor issue. I did find D608 shorted but replaced that (and D708) but really no difference.

Has anyone see a similar issue with shaking on just one edge of the screen? Really odd. I guess next I can check the frame transistors for the Y axis to see if one is on the way out. If not then probably something else on the deflection board. I doubt it is the yoke but stranger things have happened.


Pull the deflection board and reflow all header joints.

Also, get some DeOxit and get some into each of the adjustment pots on the deflection board, and work the pots back and forth a few times to work the DeOxit into them.
 
Make sure the dag spring (or strap, whichever it has) is clean and making solid contact with the tube and frame.

Also, make sure there aren't large pieces of dag flaked off or missing.

I'm not an expert on tube failures, but internal arcing usually suggests a bad tube.

Technically you have another good tube in your other monitor, which you could swap as a test. Tube swapping isn't too hard in this case, if you have both monitors removed, as you can remove the tube + yoke from the frame by just removing the 4 corner bolts. Then the tube will separate and leave the frame and boards intact. (And you can keep the yoke with the tube, that's swappable between a v2000 and 802. So no need to remove it from the neck.)
Curious: What to do if there is any dag missing?
 
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