WG6100 - Spot Killer on
- Thread starter dogbowl
- Start date
I took out the monitor and found a few strange things.
-R100 15ohm .5w has been overheated but still reads fine. What might cause this to overheat? I will have to replace the resistor.
-The flyback has a screw out of it. It looks broken off when you pull it out. Sorta melted or snapped in half look.
-The clip of the flyback that goes into the monitor has a small metal plate on it. I have only taken 3 monitors apart now, but I have never seen this before. Is that normal for the 6100 monitor?
The 6 monitor chassis transistors read .5 to 1.9 from the metal body to the chassis. I will have to take some other stuff apart to measure the pins.
Here are some pictures. I will also keep updating a site that might help out someone else as I work to solve my issues.
https://sites.google.com/site/tempestcocktail/
-R100 15ohm .5w has been overheated but still reads fine. What might cause this to overheat? I will have to replace the resistor.
-The flyback has a screw out of it. It looks broken off when you pull it out. Sorta melted or snapped in half look.
-The clip of the flyback that goes into the monitor has a small metal plate on it. I have only taken 3 monitors apart now, but I have never seen this before. Is that normal for the 6100 monitor?
The 6 monitor chassis transistors read .5 to 1.9 from the metal body to the chassis. I will have to take some other stuff apart to measure the pins.
Here are some pictures. I will also keep updating a site that might help out someone else as I work to solve my issues.
https://sites.google.com/site/tempestcocktail/
Attachments
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VectorJunkie
Well-known member
R100 gets burned up all the time. You should get a LV2000 or LV6100 mod and stick it in there. You can rebuild the LV section as is, but that won't help prevent this from occurring again.
Don't know what to say about the screw coming out of the flyback... Looks like some f'ed up attempt to bolt it in place.
The metal plate on the anode cup is supposed to be there. That is standard on the 6100.
Disconnect the transistor wires from the deflection board and then check the conductivity to the metal frame. You shouldn't have any conductivity with those disconnected. With the transistors connected, you can get some readings back through the deflection circuit to ground. If your LV section is fried, you may have a fried Transistor or two. So you need to test the transistors. You can easily do this with them installed with the instructions below. You just stick your meter in diode mode and follow the pin per pin tests as outlined. You should get the results as indicated.
As others said, check for cold solder joints on all of the headers too.
NPN (2N3716) Test on connector at Pin positions 1, 3, 4 of J100, J600, J700
===============================================
Test #1
-------------------
Red -> Pin 3
Black -> Pin 4
Result: .45v to .9v
Test #2
-------------------
Red -> Pin 3
Black -> Pin 1
Result: .45v to .9v
Test #3
-------------------
Red -> Pin 4
Black -> Pin 3
Result: Open
Test #4
-------------------
Red -> Pin 1
Black -> Pin 3
Result: Open
Test #5
-------------------
Red -> Pin 1
Black -> Pin 4
Result: Open
Test #6
-------------------
Red -> Pin 4
Black -> Pin 1
Result: Open
PNP (2N3792) Test on connector at Pin positions 5, 6, 7 of J100, J600, J700
===============================================
Test #1
-------------------
Red -> Pin 6
Black -> Pin 5
Result: Open
Test #2
-------------------
Red -> Pin 6
Black -> Pin 7
Result: Open
Test #3
-------------------
Red -> Pin 5
Black -> Pin 6
Result: .45v to .9v
Test #4
-------------------
Red -> Pin 7
Black -> Pin 6
Result: .45v to .9v
Test #5
-------------------
Red -> Pin 7
Black -> Pin 5
Result: Open
Test #6
-------------------
Red -> Pin 5
Black -> Pin 7
Result: Open
That is a super reply. Thank you for all the information. I am ordering a cap kit and some other things from Bob tonight. Where would you suggest getting a LV kit from? And what is that small metal plate on the anode cup for?
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VectorJunkie
Well-known member
Several places sell the lv2000. I have purchased them from arcadeshop in the past. I documented the first 6100 I fixed when I found KLOV. You can see what the lv2000 is like.
http://mysite.verizon.net/vectorjunkie/Site/Main/Entries/2007/8/18_Space_Duel_Monitor_Repair.html
The metal bolt came out of the center of the flyback. I have seen numerous ones where the bolt corrodes or snaps and separates from the HV unit. Perfectly normal. Nothing you can do but throw it away. Not sure about your testing of the transistors. Please go back and reread how to test the T03 transistors and their values.
You don't have to remove anything but the red connectors from the deflection board for each set of transistors. Then test each transistor using the method I discussed in a separate thread. (sorry, I don't have the link) You should get the values posted above. You have to tilt the monitor over to get to the bottom pins on the lower set of transistors (if you remove the monitor) Be careful so you don't neck the tube or scratch the face of the tube.
The small metal plate on the anode cup keeps the two "springs" from getting splayed out too far and loose. You can remove it if you wish but if it isn't causing any issues, leave it in place.
You don't have to remove anything but the red connectors from the deflection board for each set of transistors. Then test each transistor using the method I discussed in a separate thread. (sorry, I don't have the link) You should get the values posted above. You have to tilt the monitor over to get to the bottom pins on the lower set of transistors (if you remove the monitor) Be careful so you don't neck the tube or scratch the face of the tube.
The small metal plate on the anode cup keeps the two "springs" from getting splayed out too far and loose. You can remove it if you wish but if it isn't causing any issues, leave it in place.
A few more questions,
I am not getting any video output on my scope. Can someone tell me what I might be doing wrong with hooking this up to a scope? XY mode, X channel probe, Y channel probe ground. Only getting a dot.
Also when going though the flowchart on the Tempest 6100 monitor issues the first step is to see if you can get a spot to show up in the middle of the screen. I can get a spot by moving my focus and brightness but it burnt a small pinhole spot on the monitor. How is it safe to go through this process if messing with the brightness is going to burn the monitor?
The game is not playing blind, making any sounds, or having any game video output. I have cleaned all the connections and recapped everything. The spot killer is on, and the two board leds are solid lit. The board voltages 5,15,-15 are correct. The X out on the main game pcb is moving around about .5v but the Y is stuck on about 2+.
"Take your scope leads connect channel 1 to X and channel 2 to Y ( test points on the Tempest main board). Set your Volts per division to 2V or so and put the scope in X-Y mode. I usually totally unhook the monitor when I do this."
I am not getting any video output on my scope. Can someone tell me what I might be doing wrong with hooking this up to a scope? XY mode, X channel probe, Y channel probe ground. Only getting a dot.
Also when going though the flowchart on the Tempest 6100 monitor issues the first step is to see if you can get a spot to show up in the middle of the screen. I can get a spot by moving my focus and brightness but it burnt a small pinhole spot on the monitor. How is it safe to go through this process if messing with the brightness is going to burn the monitor?
The game is not playing blind, making any sounds, or having any game video output. I have cleaned all the connections and recapped everything. The spot killer is on, and the two board leds are solid lit. The board voltages 5,15,-15 are correct. The X out on the main game pcb is moving around about .5v but the Y is stuck on about 2+.
"Take your scope leads connect channel 1 to X and channel 2 to Y ( test points on the Tempest main board). Set your Volts per division to 2V or so and put the scope in X-Y mode. I usually totally unhook the monitor when I do this."
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Okay...........reading one of your last posts. If the game doesn't play blind, you won't get anything on the monitor. Do you have good voltages going to the game board? Not sure? Get your multi-meter and set it to DC volts. Put the black probe on GND on the game board and the red probe on the various lugs mounted on the game board with +5V and +10V or whatever and see what the voltages are. If the red LED next to the 5V test point next to the edge connector isn't lit, that is a good sign that your AR board is hosed and might need rebuilding. Are the fuses good in your cabinet? There are 6 on the power brick. 5 in the holder and one under a black cap that unscrews counterclockwise. Do you have anyone near you that works on games? Where is your location? You need to update your personal info so we know where you are at to get somebody to assist you. If your voltages are bad or missing, you won't get anything on your monitor. You may have toasted a resistor on the ARII board in the middle of the back of the cabinet. See if R29/R30 looks cooked. If it is, you probably have a bad edge connector and have a lot of work ahead of you to get the game going again. DON'T part it out. All is not lost. We just need to know where to start. It sounds like we may have put the cart before the horse.
Do you have the game manual? We need to get the game into test mode and see what happens.
Do you have the game manual? We need to get the game into test mode and see what happens.
Thanks for the reply. I have: recapped/rebuilt the monitor, HV cage, deflection board, AR2 board. Put in a new big blue, fuse block, and 6 chassis trans. The work I have done to the game boards: recapped, put in new to082s, and transistors, pulled the socketed ICS and cleaned the legs. Reflowed all the connection clips on the all of the pcbs and pin by pin checked the connection between the main and aux game boards.
The game will not produce any sound or output video. I am guessing there is something wrong with the game boards.
I am not sure how to put this into the test mode. I see the volume knob, credit button, and the switch. I believe the switch to be the test mode switch but it is not marked which direction is the test mode and which is the normal mode. I have pushed it into both positions and turn on and off the machine in each direction without any changes.
I tried to ground the Watch dog ring without any changes. There is movement on the CPU pin 37.
It has never blown any fuses. I shotgun replaced all the stuff to have a good starting point and to help out the longevity of the machine.
"Find the test loop on the main board that says WDDIS. Take a piece of wire and tie this location to ground. Now power up the game and press RESET a few times."
The game will not produce any sound or output video. I am guessing there is something wrong with the game boards.
I am not sure how to put this into the test mode. I see the volume knob, credit button, and the switch. I believe the switch to be the test mode switch but it is not marked which direction is the test mode and which is the normal mode. I have pushed it into both positions and turn on and off the machine in each direction without any changes.
I tried to ground the Watch dog ring without any changes. There is movement on the CPU pin 37.
It has never blown any fuses. I shotgun replaced all the stuff to have a good starting point and to help out the longevity of the machine.
"Find the test loop on the main board that says WDDIS. Take a piece of wire and tie this location to ground. Now power up the game and press RESET a few times."
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Here is the bit of video movement I got after cleaning all the socketed ICs on the game boards.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dywcSRabIgw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dywcSRabIgw
Here is a long list of ring voltage readings.
The five things that look strange to me are: ROM 8 on the game board, Xout on the game board, the 36AC line on the AR2 board, the Sense on the AR2, and the 10.3DC on the AR2.
Game PCB
Ring Reading
5 5.07DC
15 14.84DC
-15 -15.13DC
Yout -.7 to -1.2DC
Xout -1.53 not moving
6.8 6.74DC
Coin L 5.06DC
Coin C 5.06DC
Slam 5.06DC
Coin R 5.06DC
6MHZ 1.8DC
WD DIS 5DC
R/W 3-3.29DC moving
I2 2.04DC
I0 2.02DC
ROM X 4.41DC
ROM O 4.42DC
ROM 1-7 4.41DC
ROM 8 .11DC
Game Aux Board
Rings Readings
22 24.5DC
AUD- 4.7DC
AUD+ 5.9DC
EI2 2DC
E6MHZ 2DC
E3MHZ 2.13DC
ER/WB 3.8-4.25 moving
AR2 Board
Rings Readings
36AC 18.2AC I might be reading this wrong. I took the black probe to the GND ring
and the red probe to the 36AC ring. It reads 37.09AC from the power supply
connector with the red and black probes on the two pins within the connector
from the power block.
-22DC -24.8DC
-5DC -5.1DC
12DC 11.8DC
10.3DC 12.4DC
-Sense .08DC
Speaker 2 5.7DC
Speaker 1 5.75DC
Any suggestions?
The five things that look strange to me are: ROM 8 on the game board, Xout on the game board, the 36AC line on the AR2 board, the Sense on the AR2, and the 10.3DC on the AR2.
Game PCB
Ring Reading
5 5.07DC
15 14.84DC
-15 -15.13DC
Yout -.7 to -1.2DC
Xout -1.53 not moving
6.8 6.74DC
Coin L 5.06DC
Coin C 5.06DC
Slam 5.06DC
Coin R 5.06DC
6MHZ 1.8DC
WD DIS 5DC
R/W 3-3.29DC moving
I2 2.04DC
I0 2.02DC
ROM X 4.41DC
ROM O 4.42DC
ROM 1-7 4.41DC
ROM 8 .11DC
Game Aux Board
Rings Readings
22 24.5DC
AUD- 4.7DC
AUD+ 5.9DC
EI2 2DC
E6MHZ 2DC
E3MHZ 2.13DC
ER/WB 3.8-4.25 moving
AR2 Board
Rings Readings
36AC 18.2AC I might be reading this wrong. I took the black probe to the GND ring
and the red probe to the 36AC ring. It reads 37.09AC from the power supply
connector with the red and black probes on the two pins within the connector
from the power block.
-22DC -24.8DC
-5DC -5.1DC
12DC 11.8DC
10.3DC 12.4DC
-Sense .08DC
Speaker 2 5.7DC
Speaker 1 5.75DC
Any suggestions?
Bump for suggestions. I got to put a working board in the cabinet and it works. So the issue is fully the PCB. Any thoughts what could be broken on it by the voltage readings? Is the last 8 ROM voltage suppose to be that low?
Game PCB
Ring Reading
5 5.07DC
15 14.84DC
-15 -15.13DC
Yout -.7 to -1.2DC
Xout -1.53 not moving
6.8 6.74DC
Coin L 5.06DC
Coin C 5.06DC
Slam 5.06DC
Coin R 5.06DC
6MHZ 1.8DC
WD DIS 5DC
R/W 3-3.29DC moving
I2 2.04DC
I0 2.02DC
ROM X 4.41DC
ROM O 4.42DC
ROM 1-7 4.41DC
ROM 8 .11DC
Game Aux Board
Rings Readings
22 24.5DC
AUD- 4.7DC
AUD+ 5.9DC
EI2 2DC
E6MHZ 2DC
E3MHZ 2.13DC
ER/WB 3.8-4.25 moving
Game PCB
Ring Reading
5 5.07DC
15 14.84DC
-15 -15.13DC
Yout -.7 to -1.2DC
Xout -1.53 not moving
6.8 6.74DC
Coin L 5.06DC
Coin C 5.06DC
Slam 5.06DC
Coin R 5.06DC
6MHZ 1.8DC
WD DIS 5DC
R/W 3-3.29DC moving
I2 2.04DC
I0 2.02DC
ROM X 4.41DC
ROM O 4.42DC
ROM 1-7 4.41DC
ROM 8 .11DC
Game Aux Board
Rings Readings
22 24.5DC
AUD- 4.7DC
AUD+ 5.9DC
EI2 2DC
E6MHZ 2DC
E3MHZ 2.13DC
ER/WB 3.8-4.25 moving
DarrenF
Well-known member
12.4 on the 10.3DC input to an ARII is fine. I've never seen one as low as 10.3; commonly between 11 & 12, but 12.4 doesn't seem out of wack or a cause for concern (to me).
You are correct about reading the AC wrong (each leg to GND), and then also correct about reading it properly. Measure DC voltages to the appropriate ground; AC lines tend to occur in pairs, and sould be measured across the pair (an exception might be a center-tapped transformer...)
What gets my attention is the X-out "not moving." Switch your meter over to AC and measure it again. If it shows 0 (or nearly 0) AC component, you certainly have a dead X output...
I got to test against another board today and I see that the voltages should be moving on most of the ROM chips. Since none of mine are moving and the voltage is almost nothing on ROM 8 does this suggest a CPU chip is gone back? Or if ROM 8 is bad could that stop all the others?
Also,
If the X output is not moving and stuck could it also be the bad ROM or CPU chip?
Also,
If the X output is not moving and stuck could it also be the bad ROM or CPU chip?
DarrenF
Well-known member
Its difficult to offer troubleshooting advice without you using a logic probe.
My pure speculation (based on the apparent fact that you have output on 1 axis, but none of the other) is that the CPU is fine, and the EPROMs are at least not totally hosed. It appears that code is running and generating some type of output. I'd be looking in the X output amplifier circuit, myself. But then again, I'd be checking some other things with a logic probe first... like making sure there's a good clock signal to the CPU, making sure the reset line is staying high, and verifying activity on the data and address lines.
Oh, BTW. If you have Y output but no X, you should be able to turn the brightness (way) up on the monitor to overcome the spot-killer circuit. You would expect to see a vertical line if you have a valid Y output and dead X.
My pure speculation (based on the apparent fact that you have output on 1 axis, but none of the other) is that the CPU is fine, and the EPROMs are at least not totally hosed. It appears that code is running and generating some type of output. I'd be looking in the X output amplifier circuit, myself. But then again, I'd be checking some other things with a logic probe first... like making sure there's a good clock signal to the CPU, making sure the reset line is staying high, and verifying activity on the data and address lines.
Oh, BTW. If you have Y output but no X, you should be able to turn the brightness (way) up on the monitor to overcome the spot-killer circuit. You would expect to see a vertical line if you have a valid Y output and dead X.
mcandrewsoun
Well-known member
If the CPU is running, check the inputs to the TLO82s in the X output section..Ive seen several of these bad.
coil1002
New member
try this it is well written and has a good troubleshooting walk through
http://www.kfu.com/~nsayer/games/tempest.html
http://www.kfu.com/~nsayer/games/tempest.html
I have replaced all the tl082's with new ones because I read that sometimes they cause issues.
I have a scope and see a square wave going to the the CPU 37,39. Could you explain how to check if the reset line is staying high and how to verify if there is activity on the data and address lines?
Also I don't get a line, I only get a slightly moving spot.
"I'd be looking in the X output amplifier circuit, myself. But then again, I'd be checking some other things with a logic probe first... like making sure there's a good clock signal to the CPU, making sure the reset line is staying high, and verifying activity on the data and address lines.
Oh, BTW. If you have Y output but no X, you should be able to turn the brightness (way) up on the monitor to overcome the spot-killer circuit. You would expect to see a vertical line if you have a valid Y output and dead X."
I have a scope and see a square wave going to the the CPU 37,39. Could you explain how to check if the reset line is staying high and how to verify if there is activity on the data and address lines?
Also I don't get a line, I only get a slightly moving spot.
"I'd be looking in the X output amplifier circuit, myself. But then again, I'd be checking some other things with a logic probe first... like making sure there's a good clock signal to the CPU, making sure the reset line is staying high, and verifying activity on the data and address lines.
Oh, BTW. If you have Y output but no X, you should be able to turn the brightness (way) up on the monitor to overcome the spot-killer circuit. You would expect to see a vertical line if you have a valid Y output and dead X."
