WG6100 and Bob's K6100 Deluxe Kit

alejandromad

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I am installing and LV2000 and Bob Robert's Deluxe kit on my Tempest monitor. Here's my question... the package from Bob which contains the parts identified as "WG6100 Additional Parts Kit" has a bunch of components in it that don't seem, from what Bob writes in the document, to really be replaced.

If you have an opinion I would like to hear it.

FYI... the monitor looks nice (see pics) but recently, after sitting unused for a few years, I turned it on and R100 immediately smoked. That's when I decided to cap and low voltage modify it.
 

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Okay, I've done this for someone before, and know what you're referring to.

The original 6100 rebuild from Bob will have parts to redo the low-voltage section. The Deluxe part has upgraded parts that replace some of in the low-voltage section, including ones you might have put in with the regular kit. And the LV2000 replaces all those parts in the low-voltage section.

The best thing to do is to install the LV2000 first, then don't use anything in either kit that would have normally gone where the LV2000 is now. Save the extra parts in case you need them someday...
 
Okay, I've done this for someone before, and know what you're referring to.

The original 6100 rebuild from Bob will have parts to redo the low-voltage section. The Deluxe part has upgraded parts that replace some of in the low-voltage section, including ones you might have put in with the regular kit. And the LV2000 replaces all those parts in the low-voltage section.

The best thing to do is to install the LV2000 first, then don't use anything in either kit that would have normally gone where the LV2000 is now. Save the extra parts in case you need them someday...

thats what i did, i figured thats what those were for and i have them in a small bag in a box incase i might need them :)
 
So... I did replace all the components in Bob's kit that went in the HV cage also.

Found I had a lifted connector trace (+5vdc) on my Tempest Main PCB (sh*t!!!) so I dug out an untested PCB I had purchased a million years ago and popped it in...
nada... spot killer was ON, no monitor chatter, both player start bttons lit solid.

That's the bad news.. well the only bad news I was aware of at the time.

I methodically cleaned and re-seated ever single socketed device on the Main and Aux PCBs and tried again.
spot killer was OFF, flashing player start buttons, game sounds, deflection chatter...
YES!
Now for the bad news... pitch black screen. NO brightness at all. No adjusting on the HV unit changes that.
The LV2000 leds are lit... the spot killer LED is not.
Hmmm... nothing smoking .. pretty sure I hear HV crackle on start up and touching the front of the screen gives me that static cling sort of effect.
I decide to discharge the monitor again so I can check out the HV cage...
Surprise !!! No 'POP' at all.. nada, it's like it was never turned on.

OK... I'm stumped.

I will check the B+ tomorrow and I read something about a "HV Over-Voltage Protection Circuit".. what's the story with that?
Ideas?
 
do you have neck glow? also check the connector between the neck board and HV cage and make sure the wires didnt break or come loose if it did you will have to fix it, as thats what happend to me, goodluck
 
do you have neck glow? also check the connector between the neck board and HV cage and make sure the wires didnt break or come loose if it did you will have to fix it, as thats what happend to me, goodluck

Truth be told... I didn't check for neck glow. If it's missing, that would certainly keep a picture from displaying. I will check it out tonight.

I am more concerned about the lack of HV... after 10 minutes or so of being on there was still no apparent charge on the CRT when I discharged it.

I am thinking now that perhaps I didn't have the anode connected properly.

Am I right in thinking that if I don't create a difference in potential between the cathode ("neck") and the anode (front of tube) then I wouldn't have a picture either?

On the end of the anode wire, under the 'suction cup' cap, there is the anode (chrome tip), a silver clip and a small silver disk. I have drawn them in the attached image. (no comments on my artistic ability please ;-)

For the record... when I reattached it I just sort of laid it all up on the tube... over the hole... making sure the 'wire clip thingie' was inside and covered it with the 'suction cup' cap.

I am thinking, now, that I should put that anode tip INSIDE the opening in the tube... yeah???

If that's all it is I would be embarrased but, if I can play Tempest tonight, it'll be worth it.

Your thoughts?
 

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Truth be told... I didn't check for neck glow. If it's missing, that would certainly keep a picture from displaying. I will check it out tonight.

I am more concerned about the lack of HV... after 10 minutes or so of being on there was still no apparent charge on the CRT when I discharged it.

I am thinking now that perhaps I didn't have the anode connected properly.

Am I right in thinking that if I don't create a difference in potential between the cathode ("neck") and the anode (front of tube) then I wouldn't have a picture either?

On the end of the anode wire, under the 'suction cup' cap, there is the anode (chrome tip), a silver clip and a small silver disk. I have drawn them in the attached image. (no comments on my artistic ability please ;-)

For the record... when I reattached it I just sort of laid it all up on the tube... over the hole... making sure the 'wire clip thingie' was inside and covered it with the 'suction cup' cap.

I am thinking, now, that I should put that anode tip INSIDE the opening in the tube... yeah???

If that's all it is I would be embarrased but, if I can play Tempest tonight, it'll be worth it.

Your thoughts?

i wouldnt think that would cause it, i have mine connected the same way with the clip inside and it works fine, but i would def check your B+ if its low then that might be causing you to not have any picture and would be one step closer to figuring out whats wrong
 
Is your spot killer on? Both lights lit on the LV2000?

You don't normally get a spark when discharging a 6100, so I wouldn't worry about that. Measure your B+, as it is a good indicator of the HV. It should be 180vdc approx.

If your B+ is good and your spot killer is off, and you still have no pic, try turning up the brightness. Also, the wires to the back of the focus and brightness controls just plug in and sometimes pop loose, so you can check that, too. And it's not uncommon that one of the wires to the 2-pin connector on the HV cage will break off...
 
And it's not uncommon that one of the wires to the 2-pin connector on the HV cage will break off...

thats what happend to mine, what i did was cut the connector off both sets of wires and get some of these
wire_connector.jpg


and it worked perfectly though i would much rather have a new connector
 
Too bad you dont have a known working Tempest board.

I have had a Tempest board set in the past that played blind.

Do you have another game to test that 6100 in? I am thinking there is nothing wrong with it. They never "pop" for me either when I discharge them.

How about fixing the trace on the board that used to work?
 
For the record... when I reattached it I just sort of laid it all up on the tube... over the hole... making sure the 'wire clip thingie' was inside and covered it with the 'suction cup' cap.

I am thinking, now, that I should put that anode tip INSIDE the opening in the tube... yeah???

Your thoughts?


You will want to make sure the shiny chrome metal anode clip thingy is inside the hole on the tube. Most of the time it will clip inside and stay there even if you try pulling the suction cup back.
 
So... update.

I reattached the anode and was much more deliberate this time. I could not put the anode tip in the hole at the same time that the clips were in the hole but I did position the tip over the top of the hole.

I also took the cover off the HV cage and just sort of did an "integrity check" of each of the connecting items... the power plug and P900 along with the wires on the back of the focus and brightness controls... wiggling and re-seating them. I turned the focus and intensity controls to mid position and fired her up.

Eureka !!!! (sort of)

Here's what I have now...
http://s972.photobucket.com/albums/ae206/alejandro_madera/Arcade/Tempest/

I did not replace any of the 2N3716 or 2N3792 transistors. Also, I am not sure the PCB set I am using is 'good'... remember, it didn't work at all when I first plugged it in.

Ideas?

Which leaves me with this...

How about fixing the trace on the board that used to work?

I need to learn how to do that. I would love to get that taken care of because that boardset has Clay's Multi-Tempest on it and was what I had always had in there.
 
Well, you need to check why you have no deflection on half the screen:

a) reflow all solder to the connector pins on the deflection board

b) check for broken wires to the sockets of the six frame-mounted transistors

c) replace the 2n3716's and 2n3792's, using mica insulators

But the scrambled pic seems to indicate a mathbox problem. Put it into test and see if you get a stable grid or not...
 
a) reflow all solder to the connector pins on the deflection board

--- I did that when I did the cap kit/LV2000 install and I metered the pins to the next connecting point on the PCB so I am somewhat confident that's OK. I will check again though.
b) check for broken wires to the sockets of the six frame-mounted transistors

--- need to do that.
c) replace the 2n3716's and 2n3792's, using mica insulators

--- I have them, I might as well use them... and it DID fail originally (burning up R100) and that happened for an as yet undetermined reason.
But the scrambled pic seems to indicate a mathbox problem. Put it into test and see if you get a stable grid or not...

--- I can't get it into 'test mode' not sure if the test swith isn't hooked up properly or what. I guess I need to trace that out. Regardless of switch position it simply stays in "free play". There aren't any dip switch settings around being able to enter test mode... are there?
 
So... update.

I reattached the anode and was much more deliberate this time. I could not put the anode tip in the hole at the same time that the clips were in the hole but I did position the tip over the top of the hole.

I also took the cover off the HV cage and just sort of did an "integrity check" of each of the connecting items... the power plug and P900 along with the wires on the back of the focus and brightness controls... wiggling and re-seating them. I turned the focus and intensity controls to mid position and fired her up.

Eureka !!!! (sort of)

Here's what I have now...
http://s972.photobucket.com/albums/ae206/alejandro_madera/Arcade/Tempest/

I did not replace any of the 2N3716 or 2N3792 transistors. Also, I am not sure the PCB set I am using is 'good'... remember, it didn't work at all when I first plugged it in.

Ideas?

Which leaves me with this...



I need to learn how to do that. I would love to get that taken care of because that boardset has Clay's Multi-Tempest on it and was what I had always had in there.
mine was doing something like that and if i remember right it was a bad cap on the HV cage, C902 which is a 100uf 35v cap
 
I would bet money that it is the bottle cap transistors on the frame. Make sure you plugged them in correctly to the deflection board. Did you reflow the solder on the pins where the bottle cap transistors plug into the deflection board?
 
Make sure you plugged them in correctly to the deflection board.

I think I did... they are all keyed... but I'll check again.

Did you reflow the solder on the pins where the bottle cap transistors plug into the deflection board?

Yep I did that.. and metered from the pins to the next component in line to be sure they had continuity. (also that they did NOT have continuity pin-to-pin if they weren't supposed to)

I am planning to replace the transistors this weekend.

The PCB is also questionable... no, it's not 100% working. I have to do a repair on one the +5v pins on my other PCB set. I may just splice and solder a wire to the pcb as a temp fix to use it until I get the stuff to repair the edge connector.
 
Update:

I did hardwire the 5v on the other PCB set and hook it up.
Same deal... only deflection on the upper half of the screen. At least the mathbox craziness from the other PCB is gone.

Then I went ahead and replaced all of the 2n3716's and 2n3792's... verified the collectors were not shorted to the chassis... and, the pictures show the result... no change at all.

Lastly... I measured the voltage on each of the 6 chassis mounted transistors (with the monitor on) and they were all either or neg or pos 26-30vdc... which I believe is acceptable.

This leads me to believe there is something amiss in the circuitry that actually sends the deflection signals to the transistors... yes?

Where, and what, might that be?

I did not replace the MPSU07 or MPSU57 transistors when I did the cap kit on the deflection PCB.
Should I?
 

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