Wells Gardner 27D9204 27" (Korean?) -- no blue

roothorick

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Wells Gardner 27D9204 27" (Korean?) -- no blue

This board had previously been repaired by Happ (no idea if they outsourced it; never bothered to ask) for a missing green. Now a different color has failed, barely a year later. They charge substantially more; I can't justify paying their price AGAIN for a game that makes so little. I discovered that Wells Gardner themselves repair boards for substantially cheaper, so I sent it to them. Problem is, WG tells me the board is a Korean make, and thus refuses to repair this board. So, if I can't fix the monitor myself, odds are, the machine's getting sold, along with its partner. And this is my favorite game in the gameroom; I DON'T want that to happen.

It's a Wells Gardner 27D9204 (at least, the schematics match the board layout), which belongs to a San Francisco Rush 2049. But apparently, this monitor is special. It's a "Korean" chassis, and according to WG, it's impossible to source parts for it. (To be fair, the main board does proudly proclaim "MADE IN KOREA" but come on, what good are standards if you can't make parts work on boards made in different countries?)

The problem: The picture is normal for a while, but after a few minutes of being on, the blue goes out. Simply power cycling doesn't help; turning it off for a while brings the blue back for a little bit but it dies again. Sync is perfect, no flicker, but there's no blue in the picture.

A few observations:
  • WG's troubleshooting guide tells me to check IC201. This chip is labeled "SAMSUNG S121A / S1D2500A01-00". I found plenty of datasheets, but no place to get a replacement chip -- I have two Rush cabinets with identical monitors, and can cannibalize an IC from the other for testing, but if it's really bad, where am I getting a replacement? Can I get one?
  • They also say to check transistors 202 for red, 207 for green, and 213 for blue. All three are MISSING. 204, 209, and 214 are also missing, but these three spots have a jumper running across the outer two pins.
  • The board is visibly browned around the contact pads for transistors 201, 206, and especially 211. These are big transistors, with their own heatsinks. I'm guessing these transistors get HOT, and the heatsinks aren't enough. It seems like a common enough part (KSC3502E, all kinds of hits on Google) but maybe the heatsinks aren't enough? Can and should I get bigger sinks? Could I fashion my own? Or is there even a better part that would last longer here?

PS. Why does WG insist on zip-tying the protective plastic to the back of the neckboard? Some aluminum or plastic screws+nuts would be nice

PPS. I think I screwed up while putting in the other board, the one they fixed. I turned it on, and after a little of the usual startup squealing, I see a spark and hear a loud bang. Damnit, I'm going home.
 
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hehe, where in wi are you and what do you want for the game as is?

that sucks about wg.. its very very sad that they wont even service what they sell..

worst case send the chassis to chad at www.arcadecup.com hes cheaper then wg or happ would be...

but like i said lmk if you throw in the towel on the game ansd if your southern wi id really have to consider it.. i love rush and 2049 is effing sweet!!
 
hehe, where in wi are you and what do you want for the game as is?

Appleton, WI. Purchasing and selling decisions aren't mine to make; I'm just the self-trained in-house anything-electronic repair-dude.

worst case send the chassis to chad at www.arcadecup.com hes cheaper then wg or happ would be...

WG actually did the D9400 (the one that blew up!) for slightly cheaper -- $100 plus shipping both ways. Of course, whether they actually did the job properly is still up in the air...
 
Those chassis' have TONS of bad solder joints... did you do an initial check of them first? I'd assume WG would do that, but their policy may just be to return any of that type. If you go into the menu, is there any blue there? I had a bad solder joint on my input board and I lost red, but there was still red in the menu, so my first thing to check was anything before actual video output.

DogP
 
Those chassis' have TONS of bad solder joints... did you do an initial check of them first? I'd assume WG would do that, but their policy may just be to return any of that type. If you go into the menu, is there any blue there? I had a bad solder joint on my input board and I lost red, but there was still red in the menu, so my first thing to check was anything before actual video output.

DogP

They specifically told me they didn't examine the board, and that they could, but an inspection fee would be involved. I turned them down on that offer, figuring it not worth my money. Instead we paid the shipping back and I'm gonna take a crack at it myself.
 
Your on the right track with the browning around the transistors. Wherever you see that those solder points are suspect. Its not that the transistors are bad, just have bad connections. Resolder any suspect solder points on all those transistors, especially on the neck board (back of pic tube) and I'll bet your blue will stay working. I'm not familiar with that exact model but its just common with any monitor or tv. Since the pic tube gets pretty hot at the end that neck board is the first to be baked to death.

PS I think the zip tie thing is just purely a safety thing. Using screws would cost money, as well as the time that adds up screwing plates to a board, so zip ties it is ;-) I think zip ties are easier anyway.
 
I can tell you a story or two about the D9200. I too called WG up about it and they fed me some tripe about how you can't get the white block resistors or transistors for the neckboards anymore (had the same problem, red and green died when we got the game it came in, and like a dumbass I had PNL fix it, and they didn't even touch blue, then blue went out ... see where this is going?)

I called Chad from arcadecup up about it and he gave me some information about what rating resistor to replace the factory ones with. the common problem with the original neckboards (WG issued a recall back in 2004 which essentially replaced them with D9400 necks if I'm not mistaken -- the D9200 and D9400 have compatible yokes and can be interchanged between their respective tubes) was that they would overheat, sometimes to the point that they melt the yoke retaining clip and the yoke will literally slide off.

the best approach is to use a beefier type resistor for each color transistor, and go ahead and replace all the transistors too, and then in the OSD, dial down the RGB values. the picture might not look as good, but it won't drive the colors as hard. I did all this, and the monitor works fine now. the solder pad for the green transistor's middle leg got fried off, so I'm actually operating it with a jumper wire right now, has been fine since last July. try reflowing all the solder joints for the transistors and resistors first to see if you have a cold solder issue first.

resistors I used:
http://www.mouser.com/Search/Produc...K5Evirtualkey58810000virtualkey588-TWM10J1K5E

color transistors:
http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=NTE2501virtualkey52600000virtualkey526-NTE2501

WG has sales people working in their support department. they more or less told me there's no way you can fix the D9200, to buy a new D9800 instead.

screw them.
 
Quick update on the 9400... The flyback cap contacts appear to be bent out of shape. I hope turning it on without that properly seated didn't break anything... nothing looks burnt.

-E- After bending the contacts back, the cap went back in just fine, but there's no picture. I'm gonna start a new thread for that one.
 
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Just got around to playing with the 9200 again... I reflowed the joints around the three driving transistors, and reseated a jumper that looked suspicious to me.... no change. But this time I noticed one of the big ceramic resistors on the neckboard had gotten skin-burningly hot from the very short time I had the monitor on. The other two were lukewarm to the touch. So, I got a lead... I'm just waiting for it to cool down now, will be updating once I get it out and compare against the schematic.

Rolling updates as I go...

Joints at the base of R242 are visibly cracked. I just noticed that I accidentally shorted a circuit to it. Hope I didn't blow anything... I gotta be more careful.
 
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So what happened? Did you ever get this bad boy working? I've got a 9200 with a similar problem, so I'm curious...

Thanks,
John
 
I dunno how I missed the original post, but I'll bet the original chassis wasn't a D9200, but the Vision Pro copy of it that looks almost the same, works the same way, and even has the same memory corruption issue...
 
I never did get back to this thread, did I?

The 9400 chassis alluded to earlier was absolutely cooked. I now have it sitting on a shelf with parts missing. I've been cannibalizing color driving transistors off its neckboard to fix my 9200s, with 100% success. I haven't even dropped the RGB values at all -- #1 looks quite good. #2 has a pink tint, probably needs a cap kit, but at the moment I have bigger fish to fry...

-E- Second thread: http://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=144993

I must've forgotten about this one.
 
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