Wanted: Nibbler PCB Pics/Infos

Tafoid

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In order to set the record straight and make things right with everyone who has put up with MAME's insistence that all the romsets for the game Nibbler (including bootlegs/other licenses) has music, I'm looking for any and all information from KLOV's owners PCBs.

This will take some work of some Nibbler board owners, but I want to make sure there are no documentation mistakes and that MAME "get's it right"

What do we need? Any and all of the following, if possible:

1) A nice full PCB picture in as high resolution as possible so that rom chip numbers can be read off the chips themselves and documented. Also any markings, board numbers, serials or other missing sockets (in this case, IC51). You may include a text writeup too, if you wish. Did your PCB come with an original cabinet, converted cabinet or some generic one?

2) Did this PCB ever produce sound on it's own, or only after the MAME rom for the music was added? Is there a case where the sound rom is not correct in MAME for your board? Some romsets that exist in mame have have strange and overlapping sound on Wave 2?

3) If the game can be run, we need to know the "revision"? that is produced when starting the game. You wait until you see the crosshatch pattern come onto the screen, then hold the controller down. A number will show on the bottom left, next to the initials of the game creator.

4) Has your roms been dumped from your board. What set do they match up with if there is a 100% match? If there isn't a match, can you list what roms are different and be able to provide data for inclusion in MAME?

5) Any other information regarding Nibbler including issues regarding current MAME emulation would be greatly appreciated.

You could either post information here or email any data you care to my email address below. Thanks!

Respectfully,
Scott Stone
[email protected]
 
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I managed to play 2 Nibblers in the past month (Tim McVey's at the Grassroots Gaming Expo and the one at the Galloping Ghost arcade in Brookfield Ill), and niether of them had music.
 
The way i understand is nibble never had music.

This is what Tim McVey told me,

"Ken House and I had this conversation recently. Nibbler never had music in the arcade. MAME was the first I had heard it. Ken said the chip is indeed there, he just had to enable it. Nibblers were built out of Fantasy cabs...my guess was that music was for Fantasy, not Nibbler. I've been told that it goes away on MAME after 15 Waves or so...but have never been able to get that far using the keyboard... "
 
I only remember seeing Nibbler once or twice in the arcade BITD, but I don't remember the ones I played having it either. I know Tim's doesn't, nor did a spare board he had (which I was borrowing for awhile :D ) Galloping Ghost has had 2 boards (first one died while I was playing it :( ) neither of those have the music either. Richie Knucklez has a couple boards too, and I don't think any of those did either (I know the one I played didn't). I seem to remember someone (Friz?) saying they played one that did have the music. And yeah, in MAME, the music stops on wave 14.
 
Just to follow up.. I was able to determine that without any doubt there is indeed NO MUSIC for Nibbler. The IC51 rom, which all documents indicated was empty in a dedicated cabinet and/or conversion kit board, was taken from another board. Indeed, the 'music' you heard from MAME came from the original board dump which was taken from a board used for the conversion kit for Nibbler, so the extra rom was left on and assumed it was part of the board.

So, everyone can now rejoice in the fact that MAME starting this upcoming version (0.143u6) will no longer have any music - as it should have been the whole time along. The feedback was helpful and we do appreciate your patience in this matter. :D
 
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So, everyone can now rejoice in the fact that MAME starting this upcoming version (0.143u6) will no longer have any music - as it should have been the whole time along. The feedback was helpful and we do appreciate your patience in this matter. :D

70IF


Thanks for getting to the bottom of it :) I tried out Pioneer Balloon (the one listed as the origin of ROM IC51 over at mametesters), and sure enough, the music was in it (you had to play a few screens to get to it) Still seems strange that Nibbler would use it, even though it wasn't supposed to.
 
Thanks for getting to the bottom of it :) I tried out Pioneer Balloon (the one listed as the origin of ROM IC51 over at mametesters), and sure enough, the music was in it (you had to play a few screens to get to it) Still seems strange that Nibbler would use it, even though it wasn't supposed to.

All the IC51 roms can essentially be interchanged with other sets. For example, I tried Vanguard's IC51 in place of Nibbler's and I heard the main melody for several memorable tunes from Vanguard. There might be an addition of a set with the music after all because it was found in the wild in that configuration - but the main Nibbler set should not have it's own music unless it comes to light.
 
All the IC51 roms can essentially be interchanged with other sets. For example, I tried Vanguard's IC51 in place of Nibbler's and I heard the main melody for several memorable tunes from Vanguard. There might be an addition of a set with the music after all because it was found in the wild in that configuration - but the main Nibbler set should not have it's own music unless it comes to light.

Interesting...gonna have to try that in MAME...the tune Vanguard plays when you're invincible is pretty catchy :D
 
I had a nibbler that I parted out a long time ago that for sure had music.
It was a green rockola cab so dont know if it was something before nibbler that was maybe a rom conversion that left in a music chip.
I will have to fire up mame and see if it was the same music.
I can say this though, that music is what I remember most about that game, without it, it just wouldnt be nibbler.
 
Just played it in mame. Played the first 3 levels with the 2 different tunes. The way mame is is 100% the same as the way my machine was. Mine had been sitting untouched from the mid 80's so someone messed with the sound chip back when it was new, or it came from the factory that way.
I hope that not all the mame sets get messed up to have no music. Maybe just one new no music set?
For me the music should be there, the game wouldnt be right without it.
It does not mean anything that the schematics say that slot is empty. Sometimes things change after the paperwork is printed and they dont care to update it. But more likely is that some of the nibbler pcbs were reused boards where they didnt, or forgot to pull that chip. Or maybe someone on the line liked the music, or thought it was funny to leave it in.
Bottom line, dont go mess up the mame set for all of us just because some people didnt have, or dont remember the music.
It should be both ways.

I had a nibbler that I parted out a long time ago that for sure had music.
It was a green rockola cab so dont know if it was something before nibbler that was maybe a rom conversion that left in a music chip.
I will have to fire up mame and see if it was the same music.
I can say this though, that music is what I remember most about that game, without it, it just wouldnt be nibbler.
 
Just played it in mame. Played the first 3 levels with the 2 different tunes. The way mame is is 100% the same as the way my machine was. Mine had been sitting untouched from the mid 80's so someone messed with the sound chip back when it was new, or it came from the factory that way.
I hope that not all the mame sets get messed up to have no music. Maybe just one new no music set?
For me the music should be there, the game wouldnt be right without it.
It does not mean anything that the schematics say that slot is empty. Sometimes things change after the paperwork is printed and they dont care to update it. But more likely is that some of the nibbler pcbs were reused boards where they didnt, or forgot to pull that chip. Or maybe someone on the line liked the music, or thought it was funny to leave it in.
Bottom line, dont go mess up the mame set for all of us just because some people didnt have, or dont remember the music.
It should be both ways.

Trying to figure out the best way to determine how to allow Nibbler to use this extra sound chip. I'm curious, do you still own your cabinet? If so, can you check it for version number? Simply hold joystick down after crosshatch is displayed during start, and it will appear next to the developer's initials on the bottom left. MAME currently has a 6 (which would be the version which had the IC51 read), 8 and 9.

It's not beyond the realm of possibility that they had an excess of Pioneer Balloon PCB's when making Nibbler and purposely left the chip on board, despite not acknowledging it's existence on all related documents. As you said, someone might have thought it 'needed' some background music..
 
No, all I have left of it is a side of sideart that I pulled off and stuck to the wall and the marquee somewhere. Everything else is long gone.

Trying to figure out the best way to determine how to allow Nibbler to use this extra sound chip. I'm curious, do you still own your cabinet? If so, can you check it for version number? Simply hold joystick down after crosshatch is displayed during start, and it will appear next to the developer's initials on the bottom left. MAME currently has a 6 (which would be the version which had the IC51 read), 8 and 9.

It's not beyond the realm of possibility that they had an excess of Pioneer Balloon PCB's when making Nibbler and purposely left the chip on board, despite not acknowledging it's existence on all related documents. As you said, someone might have thought it 'needed' some background music..
 
I've never heard Nibbler with music besides on MAME. All the originals I've played (Galloping Ghost's, Tim McVey's, etc.) never had music. If it ever DID have music like willkaotix claims, it would be interesting and helpful to know. Contacting the original programmers (if at all possible) would be helpful in this situation.
 
I've never heard Nibbler with music besides on MAME. All the originals I've played (Galloping Ghost's, Tim McVey's, etc.) never had music. If it ever DID have music like willkaotix claims, it would be interesting and helpful to know. Contacting the original programmers (if at all possible) would be helpful in this situation.

That option is being explored right now by "Top Men" :D
 
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