Virtual Pins in the future?

Sectorseven

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Probably been discussed before, but does anyone see the manufacturers eventually dropping the traditional machine in favor of this?

Think more in the practical sense than as a collector. Hardware is constantly dropping in price and LCDs are looking better each year. Ten years from now it's possible we'll even have true glasses free 3D screens, not to mention near perfect pinball physics.

Dumping all the internals of a machine would drop production costs immensely, plus ops could easily and cheaply change games with nothing more than a USB stick and some new cabinet decals (not unlike arcade games back in the day).

And of course there's a lot more potential in a virtual game, like additional playfields for different levels and even real time changes to the playfield you're on.

I'm not even convinced customers would notice the game is virtual, as a lot of virtual pin owners who have one mixed in with their collection now seem to think they blend in pretty well, and these are collectors with a more keen eye than the casual player.
 
Hope not! I'm even considering building one, but the thought of real pinball machines not being made to focus on pretend pinball on TV sets sucks.
 
But think about the not too distant future (say ten years from now for the sake of argument). What will make a traditional machine stand out from a virtual one, especially if they have monitors that can create a physical sense of depth?
 
The whole appeal of pinball is that its real. Neat and crazy things happen that will never happen in a programmed simulation. As good as they are, they never feel quite right.
If technology is infused into pinball, I'd like to see it be a continuation of what was started with games like Revenge From Mars. Someone showed a video of a touch sensitive LCD in a playfield that could change playfield elements/graphics in an actual machine. Thats kind of cool

I'm considering building a virtual pin to at least play some of the games I'll never buy, but would still like to learn the rules. It will also help me get the feel of games that I might want to buy in the future.

I still see that as a compromise and wouldn't ever want that in place of a real machine. If I build one, it will always be side-by-side with a few actual pins.
 
Think more in the practical sense than as a collector.

like for where? an arcade? if so they don't even want to hear about pinball machines, so a virtual pin would probably be all you would ever get into most arcades

for homes? sure, get to play a bunch of tables you will never afford (or who knows maybe if virtual pins get good enough demand for real ones will go down)

theres seriously something to be said for never having to change out power/driver boards, pinballs, rubbers, target switches, coils and coil sleeves etc etc etc

but at the same time thats part of the magic for me, the ridiculous smashing together of electronics and physical stuff that makes a REAL TRUE 3d game that is totally unpredictable and obeys all the rules of real world physics (sometimes with frustrating results!!)
 
but at the same time thats part of the magic for me, the ridiculous smashing together of electronics and physical stuff that makes a REAL TRUE 3d game that is totally unpredictable and obeys all the rules of real world physics (sometimes with frustrating results!!)

This is why real pins will never go away. Last night I was playing my Ripleys, had a shot take a wierd bounce, hit a thumper that bounced it high off the glass and right over the flipper. You will never see that in a simulation.

That being said, there will be a market for virtual pins. Especially when some of the more creative people wake up and stop spending all their time recreating classic pins and start to go for some things that realworld pins can't do. Like a larger than the screen playfield. Imagine the playfield scrolling to follow the ball when it rolls off the screen rather that just bouncing off the wall. Or following the ball down the hole to a whole new playfield. Or having drop targets dissolve when you hit them, opening new parts of the playfield. Or linking playfields so you can play head to head. Or linking downholes so that when I send a shot down a hole, it pops up on another playfield and if it drains on the other player or goes down one of his downholes, it returns to me. The possibilities are endless.

ken
 
but at the same time thats part of the magic for me, the ridiculous smashing together of electronics and physical stuff that makes a REAL TRUE 3d game that is totally unpredictable and obeys all the rules of real world physics (sometimes with frustrating results!!)

That's valid, although any real world physics will ultimately be replicated by PCs. Unless you're talking about subtle physical imperfections with each individual machine. But considering how much people clamor for repro parts and essentially near mint machines, I'm not sure how many actually obsess over that sort of thing - especially casual players.

People have made similar arguments about looking at actual printed pages for books or the scratchy roughness of 35mm film, yet digital is clearly the direction both those mediums are going. Between the cost of building new machines and the cheaper maintenance (basically swapping out PC components and monitor boards) it just makes sense for them to go digital.
 
I would rather have 1 real pin than a virtual pin. I've played one and it's ok, but nowhere near as fun as just about any 1 pin. -Barry
 
Ah, but you are forgetting something very important...

Pinheads dont make sense.

Indeed... Just the fact that its not a simplified game on a TV screen is 90% of the appeal. Even though there have been plenty of mechanical hassles to owning them, its worth it. Actually enjoyable when you can figure out and fix an issue.

I can't see ever dropping cash in a virtual pin on location. I'll spend $10 on a regular pin every time I see it.
 
Indeed... Just the fact that its not a simplified game on a TV screen is 90% of the appeal. Even though there have been plenty of mechanical hassles to owning them, its worth it. Actually enjoyable when you can figure out and fix an issue.

I can't see ever dropping cash in a virtual pin on location. I'll spend $10 on a regular pin every time I see it.

I thought gameplay is what mattered. If a virtual pin came out on location with a more immersive experience than other "real" pins at the time, you wouldn't play?
 
I love real pinball machines and own a couple. I am also interested in getting a virtual pin some day as I don't have the room or dollars to buy all favorites. I can't believe what the price of the great pins is today. AFM and MM are a couple of my favorites and a clean machine is crazy expensive today.
 
I just built one on the cheap. It's great to play games you never will own. As I said elsewhere, in many ways a real pin is much better than virtual and the opposite is true as well. I'm using hyperpin with 65 tables and I've just barely learned the rules of MM.

IMAG0167.jpg
 
I thought gameplay is what mattered. If a virtual pin came out on location with a more immersive experience than other "real" pins at the time, you wouldn't play?

I can't really think about it this way. You're counting on future technology that doesn't exist to make them better, I'm going by what exists now. Who's to say what advances will occur in real pin technology?

I don't hate virtual pinball, I just don't think its possible for it to be better than what it imitates. I'd offer up the Zen pinball stuff as an example of this. The tables have animations and people walking and flying around, grabbing and hitting the ball... It actually hurts the immersion to have all that extraneous crap going on.
 
The only piece of technology I'm fantasizing is a true 3D screen, but it's only a matter of time before that exists in a practical form, and honestly it might not even be necessary.

Judging by the success Zen pinball has had I would say people enjoy it quite a bit. Right now I think the concept is being scoffed at (by the obsessive players on the internets at least) because the only thing that comes to mind are the emulations out there of existing physical games rather than the new features that can be taken advantage of.
 
Ah, but you are forgetting something very important...

Pinheads dont make sense.

Bingo. Also, there would have to be a MASSIVE improvement in the quality of the screen. I've only played one virtual pin. Although it was well-made, I just couldn't get into it because of the odd viewing angle of the screen. I think I would prefer a smaller monitor so I could stand over it instead of looking at it from the side.
 
Ah, but you are forgetting something very important...

Pinheads dont make sense.

I'm willing to bet pinheads don't really drive the market in new machines much

if someone can make a good virtual pin type device and can actually get operators like D&B etc to buy them, they would be making some decent $$$

the fact they still make pinball machines blows my mind
 
I'm willing to bet pinheads don't really drive the market in new machines much

???

Not sure I'm even understanding that statement. I think pinheads are totally driving the market, to the point that there are expensive LE editions of every new game made now geared specifically at the hardcore home user. I'm trying to think of the newest pin I've seen on location around here, and so far, its Soprano's. Pretty grim.

I'm thinking the number of new pins going into houses vs. on route must be 75%+, but I'd love to see actual numbers is someone has them.
 
Now that I have a ST:TNG I can say that feel the same way about Virtual Pin and I did about MAME. Before you have the real thing you think it is great, once you have the real thing, you could not give a rat's ass about it.
 
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