Upright Discs of Tron Squawk and Talk Tutorial

Jedidentist

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Howdy!

I'm posting this "Tutorial for Dummies" as I've received at least 3 requests on how I did this, even though it's been posted in several other forms elsewhere. I am not claiming that I came up with any of this…I have zero knowledge on anything electronics oriented (I'm like a Kindergartner when it comes to that), and all I know came from here:

http://www.ionpool.net/arcade/mcr/dot/index.htm

http://girasoli.org/arcade/?p=203

DOT Operating Manual (S&T Schematic):

http://arcarc.xmission.com/PDF_Arca...ron_Parts_and_Operating_Manual_(Aug_1983).pdf

And Bungy's thread here:

http://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=137680

As with most of my projects, I got a lot of help from JeffC and Bungy helped as well.

So I'm going to attempt to make this a sort of cook book type thread, with step by step directions, using limited "electronics" terms, so "dummies" like me can do it. I'm not going to claim that this is 100% right, but it worked for me.

What you need:
-A Squawk and Talk board (non-pinball), part number A084-91660-B000 (or C000)
If it's not already set to go, you'll need:
-Three 2532 EPROMs burned with the associated ROMs (can get from MAME or some members here) at U3, U4, U5 (see schematic)
-If you get an unpopulated board, you'll also need (1) 6802 (processor), (2) 6821 (interface), (1) 5200 (sound)
-If you don't know what any of this is, there are lots of people here who can burn these for you, and this is the info you'll have to give them. Usually, whomever you buy the board from can do this for you.
-A 5k ohm potentiometer (mine was an ugly one from Radio Shack)
-One 1.0UF 50V 20% ceramic radial capacitor (Bob Roberts or wherever)
-One 13K 1/4w resistor (I couldn't find one, so I soldered a 12k and 1k together and tested it with my multimeter first to make sure it was correct)
-16+ multicolored wires about 2 ft long (some with alligator clips help)
-a switcher to power the board (I ended up using the heavy duty one with the adapter supplied by Arcadeshop.com http://www.arcadeshop.com/mcr/mcr.htm )

In the end, you'll have a mess that looks like this:
IMG_1648.jpg


For reference:

SSIO:
IMG_1667.jpg


Squawk & Talk:
IMG_1668.jpg


Before you do anything, make a list of all of your connections and assign them to your colored wires and label them. My list looked like this:

IMG_1661.jpg
 
On the SSIO board, you're connecting everything to that group of pins labeled J5. On the S&T board, you will be using the J1 and J2 groups of pins. I removed my red connector from the SSIO board and carefully bent the necessary pins straight out, using needle nose pliers, so that I could slide the connector back on and still have access to the pins. Counting up from the bottom pin, I bent out pins number 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, and 14.

Then I labeled all of my wires with masking tape:
1. J5-8 to J5-9 (in other words, connect pin 8 on J5 of the SSIO to pin 9 of J5 on the SSIO-a "jumper")-this puts the game in Speech/Environmental mode
2. J5-10 to J1-1 (connecting SSIO to S&T)
3. J5-11 to J1-2
4. J5-12 to J1-3
5. J5-13 to J1-4
6. J5-14 to J1-8
7. J1-5 to +5V on switching power supply
8. J1-6 to ground
9. J1-9 to -5V on switching power supply
10. J1-14 to ground
11. J2-4 to 5k Ohm pot (controls volume)-see pic below
12. J2-5 to 5k Ohm pot (other connector)-see pic below
13. J2-9 to 13K 1/4w resistor which is connected on the negative end to the 1.0UF 50V 20% ceramic radial cap (don't know if it's supposed to be the negative side, but it works for mine)-see pic below
14. Positive (?) end of cap not connected to resistor gets connected to the side of second resistor below (or above, depending on how it's mounted) the label R220-see pic below
15. Another wire from that same positive (?) end of the cap to the side of second resistor below (or above, depending on mounting) the label R212-see pic below
16. J2-10 to ground.

So that's about 16 wires give or take. You basically just need to connect everything up. I attached all of my grounds to the ones on my switcher. The S&T board connections are pretty easy because there's nothing else to connect there, so you can alternate bending the pins up and down so your alligator clips don't touch. However the SSIO connections can get pretty cramped. Here are 3 pics of how different people did it.

Mine:
IMG_1651.jpg


JeffC's:
dot_242.JPG


caker137(?) from ionpool tutorial:
speech_jumper.jpg


The one in the ionpool tutorial is the neatest with a custom adapter, JeffC used a bunch of alligator clips (I think he's since cleaned it up), and I used some alligator clips and part of an old wiring harness from my Tron. It doesn't matter how you do it…you just need to make all of the connections.

Here are pics of my J1 and J2 pins from my S&T board:
IMG_1653.jpg

IMG_1652.jpg


In my pic, DO NOT study any of my wiring colors closely, as I used what I had available and in one case, spliced 2 different colored wires together to get enough length. Those 2 ugly alligator clips on the SSIO board that don't seem to be connected to anything are actually clamping down two wires to the pins…talk about lazy! I should really clean up all of my connections, but it currently works, so I really don't feel like messing with it.
 
5k ohm pot:
IMG_1671.jpg


My 2 resistors and cap soldered together and attached to the wires that connect to the jump points on the SSIO:
IMG_1655.jpg


And here are the 2 jump points on mine:
IMG_1664.jpg


And here they are on JeffC's:
dot_241.JPG


A third view can be seen above in the ionpool pic.

Here's a pic of my switcher and adapter, for what it's worth:
IMG_1650.jpg


Again, a lot of people want to keep the original power supply, and I was going to try to do it. However, I had several burnt connectors, needed to swap out the battery, and still needed a switcher to power the S&T board, so I just decided to run it all off the switcher.

If all goes well, you should be getting +5V at the test points of your S&T board, it should have a lit LED (mine's green), and if you push the red button, it should cycle through the sounds. If you put your game in test mode, it should also now list "voices" and also "lights" because your DOT now thinks it's an EDOT, and as such, the 2nd player button will no longer work (because EDOT doesn't have one). I guess there are hacks to correct that, but I'm not going to bother with it.

So again, I've presented absolutely no new information here, and all credit goes to those I've listed, and the others that helped them before that. I just found that I had to piece all of this together from 3-4 different sources and thought that it might be a little easier if it was all in one place. If anyone sees any glaring errors, please feel free to point them out and I'll correct them as I'm no expert in this field. Thanks for looking, and best of luck!

Derek
 
Thanks for collecting this info in one place. I still haven't got mine working yet. I got a -5 regulator so I'm going to try to build my own -5v supply for the S&T board since I have the original linear supply.
 
You're a brave man...I just wanted to get it done and move on. I figure that switcher will last until my 3 year old heads to college, so I'm satisfied!
 
jedi, thanks for putting this together in one thread! I'll try to get my DOT talking by February.
 
I'm gonna break the news ... I'm 80% there getting a pinball S&T to work with DOT :D And they say it can't be done ;) I think I'm proving that wrong .. I'll document my changes for everone once its done.. I will say I have Sark talking :D Next phase is to interface it.

-Ron
 
Hey either Jedidentist or Bungy... Or whomever has a working Squawk and Talk board in thier discs of Tron working. I need to get a full picture of the board so I can compare jumpers and removal of certrain componets .... I need a good front and back. Thanks!
 
I'll see if I can get that tonight. The third picture down in the first post is the front of the s&T board. If you PM me your email address, I'll try to get larger front and back ones so you can see it better.

Derek
 
I will say I am going to prove everyone wrong. YES you can use a pinball Squawk and Talk on a DOT. And here is how to do it.

For one follow the directions above.

Two. Your test points on the board are your friend.

TP1 - GROUND
TP2 - +5V DC
TP3 - +12V DC
TP4 - -5v DC

This can be attached to the switching power supply.

Now here is where it gets fun. You need to get 6.3 AC (the GI Bus power)
This must be attached to J1 Pins 7 and 18. This is AC so polarity doesn't matter.

Next make sure that there are jumpers across every point on EE (above U16 and below U12)

Last but not least. Make sure your board is strapped properly for the eproms.
See the jumper settings on the attached image.

Once thats all hooked up the board should blink 5 times. If it doesn't then check your connections to your TPs (test points)

Lets just say that anything is possiable and It took me awhile to understand what they did different between the two board but it is worth it.

Last but not least you can safely remove U12 its not needed. Any questions feel free to drop me a line.

-Ron
 

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Awesome job figuring that out! I think these are much easier to obtain, so this should help a lot of other folks out.
 
There are at least 2 models of non-MCR S&T boards. I got an AS-2518-61B to try out, but haven't done much more than verify the J1 pinout isn't even close to the MCR version and the conversion will be way more involved than previously stated. The LED isn't on because it's not getting the +5V, per the J1 pins.
 
Testing a squawk & talk

Found this helpful doc. It's translated from another language so a little funky to sift though but...tested my board with this and got the correct LED flashes!

http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Leon_Borre_Bally_-61_Squawk_and_Talk_Sound_Repair

To get the LED flashes I hooked up:
Ground to J1 pin 16
12+ to J1 pin 17
-5 to TP 4
Jumper from C14 Neg to C15 Neg


Sweet. Now to test it in the EDOT and see if I can get some sounds.
 

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It did that with the voltage regulators and caps still hooked up? Cool. I was thinking about pulling all that off and then just jumpering to correct MCR pinout. Did you make sure to set the CPU jumper for 6802?
 
more info...

I went back and added a pic to the last post at the same time you were writing..

All EE's are jumpered. The Jumper is set for 6802 as well as for the 2532 ROM's. I also thought about pulling all the extra stuff but so far looks like you don't need to. I'll be working on this again after kids are asleep... ;0)
 
GUIDE: Speech on a DOT with a Pinball Squawk & Talk

I got this 100% working on my Discs of Tron this morning and it rocks. It is not hard to do and you do not hack up anything on the board or wiring at all. I will add pictures later once I clean it all up. End result is a combo of all the other posts and some tweaks:

To do this cleanly you need:
1. MCR switcher adapter (using the stock supply produces a loud hum with the S&T board)
This is available from several suppliers.
2. A working Squawk & Talk board (these are easy to fix too!)
3. Discs of Tron Speech ROMs U3, U4, U5
4. 18 pin & 10 pin Molex plugs for J1 & J2 on Squawk & Talk
5. 2pcs 1uf 50v capacitor axial if or radial doesn't matter
6. 2pcs 13k resistor (a 12k & 1k end to end or other combo could work too)

First you need to make sure the squawk & talk works and is set up correctly.
1. Remove U12 (save it as works in a lot of games!)
2. Jumper all 5 spots across EE (tells S&T that there is no U12). I like to save cut leads from caps or resistors to use as jumpers...
3. Make sure jumpers are correct for your cpu and your ROM's:

If using a 6808 CPU chip with a 6810 chip, install L, remove K

If using a 6802 CPU chip, install K, remove L
(NOTE: If you use a 6802 you can also remove U6 6810)

ROM Size/Location U2 U3 U4 U5 (note U2 is not used in DOT)
2716 D, P, Q, T, U, X, Y, BB
2532 D, G, Q, S, U, W, Y, AA
2732 F, P, R, T, V, X, Z, BB

4. Now test the board to make sure it works. To get the 5 LED flashes (flicker+4) I hooked up a switcher to:
Ground to J1 pin 16
+12 to J1 pin 17
-5 to TP 4
Jumper from C14 Neg to C15 Neg (NOTE: you don't need this on final install)
If you get the 5 flashes you have a working S&T board! Flash codes are explained here in case your board needs to be fixed: http://www.pinrepair.com/bally/squawk.htm

5. I recommend you do a full cap kit when working on this board. Several places have it for I think $14. (Bob Roberts)

6. Install the MCR switcher kit per instructions that came with it.

7. From the switcher run the following lines:
+12 to Squawk & Talk J1 pin 17
- 5 to Squawk & Talk Test Point 3 - TP4 (top right of board above U9)
G to Squawk & Talk J1 pin 6, J1 pin 15, J2 pin 10

8. From the Squawk & Talk:
J1
1 - SSIO J5 pin 10
2 - SSIO J5 pin 11
3 - SSIO J5 pin 12
4 - SSIO J5 pin 13
6 - Ground from switcher (you can tie the 3 grounds together)
8 - SSIO J5 pin 14
15 - Ground from switcher (you can tie the 3 grounds together)
17 - +12 from switcher

J2
4 - to 5K Ohm pot (if you want external volume control)
5 - to 5k Ohm pot (if you want external volume control)
7 - Wire to a 13k resistor (12k followed by 1k is fine) then to Neg of a 1uf 50v cap.
Then attach + of the cap goes to SSIO R220 (separate lines for stereo sound)
9 - Wire to a 13k resistor (12k followed by 1k is fine) then to Neg of a 1uf 50v cap.
Then attach + of the cap goes to SSIO R209 (separate lines for stereo sound)
10 - Ground from switcher (you can tie the 3 grounds together)

9. On the SSIO board:
J5
8 - jump to 9 (tells the cab its an EDOT! You will now see Voice and Lights in test mode.)
9 - jump to 8 (tells the cab its an EDOT! You will now see Voice and Lights in test mode) NOTE: Add a switch between 8&9 if you want to play a 2 player game. You will lose some speech.
10 - S&T J1 pin 1
11 - S&T J1 pin 2
12 - S&T J1 pin 3
13 - S&T J1 pin 4
14 - S&T J1 pin 8
NOTE: Don't bend pins back as some have done. This is a push on connector. Simply slide off the black cover, press in the wires in the right spot with a crimp tool or a tiny screwdriver. Then slide the cover back on. You can remove these anytime with no damage to the pins!

That's it guys, no 6.3v from GI as stated in someones earlier post. No hacking up your DOT at all. Good luck and have fun!
 
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