UltraCade System Freezing?

[EagleTG]

I finally got my UltraCade installed and activated. It is locking up shortly after the spinning menu loads. I hear the female voice say "Capcom" and then the "All Ages" sticker animation plays, then it hangs. The watchdog circuit will reset it if I keep it connected. Then the whole process repeats.

What I've tried at this point:
- Multiple hard drives, multiple re-activations from GlobalVR
- A long-term memtest on the machine, passed with flying colors

I see the hard drive indicator light blink briefly (less than 1 second) immediately before the lock-up.

I've Googled for answers. The motherboard in the cabinet is the original Graphite system board, and is a model D815EFV / D815EPFV in this particular Graphite. It doesn't appear that these motherboards are known for capacitor issues (my first thought). I might still pull the board and test the caps just in case.

However, my suspicion is that there are version issues with the JoshuaOS / UltraCade system. My reason for this is that the original System Installation CD that I had was 3.0, the replacement that GlobalVR sent me is 3.91 (and some additional numbers that I neglected to take note of). Is there a possibility that this software is too "new" for the UltraCade machine I'm working on? Does anyone know if this is my issue, or am I facing a bad motherboard?

Or, does anyone have any additional suggestions on what could cause this lock-up? It's consistent, same spot every time. I was able to get the wheel to spin for a second one of the many times I booted, but then it locked up.

I am considering running a burn test of some sort and stress the processor a bit (Probably will use Prime95 on UBCD for Windows as a good starting point). Basically because I'm at a loss otherwise.

 

[Witchboard]

You purchased a replacement disc from GlobalVR to be "fully supported". Do they not offer any kind of support other than activation codes for the game packs?

 

[EagleTG]

You purchased a replacement disc from GlobalVR to be "fully supported". Do they not offer any kind of support other than activation codes for the game packs?

Hahha, whoops. Forgot to mention that. I called, explained the situation, and the guy said "it's probably an IDE issue". Not a whole lot of help there. He seemed to be suggesting replacing the motherboard, which I might also be fine with if I can't determine what's wrong with it (like capacitors, which I can repair).

I've tried booting and using both IDE interfaces on the motherboard, with no different result. By doing this, I also tried two separate IDE cables.

The IDE interfaces also work perfectly during the installation and boot process, every time I tried. I can't see that it's an "IDE Issue" as GlobalVR suggests.

 

[Broodwich]

that's pretty much a pc so my thoughts would be failing drivers for the gpu or the gpu failing itself. or possibly the cpu overheating for some unknown reason.

the caps should be fine on it even if there slightly bulged (1-2mm) any more than that and i would replace them or the board itself (if it's still under warranty). tho testing them wouldn't hurt especially on the surface mount caps.

the 3.0 cd is what you really need, but the 3.91 will prolly still work i'm sure it's just updated drivers mainly, tho the newer drivers could be exactly what's causing your problem.

I've never owned one of these and don't know much about them but judging by the fact that it's basicly a PC motherboard these are my thoughts. my reasoning could be completely wrong but from a pc tech p.o.v this is my 2cents.

the powersupply is another possibility as they can make pc's do strange things but it's highly unlikely, as i said if it's still under warranty i'd go that route rather than throw parts at it.


tho if you have an extra IDE HDD cable around try that out (i've seen many ide cables fail) and since you've tried other drives, the drive itself isn't the issue.


does the emulation software run in windows? if so you can use event viewer to see what caused the system to lock up.

 

[roothorick]

The 3.91 may be expecting a SATA hard drive, or a different motherboard chipset, or a different GPU. It may be supposed to work with older hardware, but doesn't actually work. I've seen this issue with F&F Drift -- 1.20 works ONLY With a GeForce 7300GS, and version 1.25 is supposed to work with a 9500GT or 7300GS, but if you boot it on a 7300GS it hangs after each race. (1.23 is the sweet spot that supports both.)

Call GlobalVR again and demand a disc for 3.0 software. Image the machine with that. If you still have freezing issues, then you definitely have a hardware problem.

 

[EagleTG]

the powersupply is another possibility as they can make pc's do strange things but it's highly unlikely, as i said if it's still under warranty i'd go that route rather than throw parts at it.

Thanks for the assistance guys, brainstorming, etc.

I forgot to mention, I swapped in a known-good power supply and connected the one in the machine to a power supply tester (just to be doubly-sure). The power supply is not the issue.

tho if you have an extra IDE HDD cable around try that out (i've seen many ide cables fail) and since you've tried other drives, the drive itself isn't the issue.

I tried the 2nd IDE channel... Disconnected the CD-ROM, connected the primary hard drive to it (using the CD-ROM's cable). The system boots and locks up just as it had before.

does the emulation software run in windows? if so you can use event viewer to see what caused the system to lock up.

No, it's a proprietary operating system called JoshuaOS. The file system is encrypted, partitions do not show up in Windows or any other file management tools.

Being an IT guy and tech/computer geek, this system absolutely mesmerizes me. I can't wait to get it working right.

 

[EagleTG]

The 3.91 may be expecting a SATA hard drive, or a different motherboard chipset, or a different GPU. It may be supposed to work with older hardware, but doesn't actually work. I've seen this issue with F&F Drift -- 1.20 works ONLY With a GeForce 7300GS, and version 1.25 is supposed to work with a 9500GT or 7300GS, but if you boot it on a 7300GS it hangs after each race. (1.23 is the sweet spot that supports both.)

Call GlobalVR again and demand a disc for 3.0 software. Image the machine with that. If you still have freezing issues, then you definitely have a hardware problem.

This is exactly what I was thinking, and awesome first-hand info (thanks!!)... Difference in hardware over the duration of the production of the machine. Awesome info, I'm going to call Global VR today and will definitely see if they can get me an old copy of the software.

 

[EagleTG]

Got hold of GlobalVR, they indicated that the 3.91 version I have should work perfectly on the D815 motherboard. They said they load them up all the time.

They do not have older versions of the System Installation CD available.

I'm going to run some additional stress tests (beyond RAM) on the motherboard, just to be absolutely sure it's 100%. I'm also thinking about trying to dig up another of these boards.

I saw in my Googling that a bunch of the older Compaq, IBM, and HP stuff work properly (as long as they are based on the i815 or i810 chipsets). I also noticed that there are a few of these boards available.

 

[pinballDan]

This is exactly what I was thinking, and awesome first-hand info (thanks!!)... Difference in hardware over the duration of the production of the machine. Awesome info, I'm going to call Global VR today and will definitely see if they can get me an old copy of the software.

3.91 is the newer version and will work just fine, I fought one for the longest time and the replacement Hard Drive I installed was to big (I think I tried to use a 40). You need to use a Western Digital 20.

 

[Maxstang]

I've had the same problem with one of these that I built up. It ended up being some unknown hardware fault on the motherboard. An 810E will also work, if you're looking for a replacement. I've even used non intel 810s with the wrong onboard sound and made it work with a sound card. I'm betting you have a GPU or memory fault. You can find these on ebay for under $10.

I don't think the Global VR version of the software is the problem as I've used up through 3.94 with no problem. As for the size of the HD, I've never used anything larger than a 40, and now use 8GB flash drives when I do these machines. That's what I would suggest. If you need the earlier install disk I can make you a copy. It doesn't need to be an original to work.

 

[EagleTG]

Motherboard in the Ultracade has passed extended burn testing, both CPU and RAM. Ran a complete HDD scan (surface errors), no issue.

Tested one of the newly imaged Ultracade drives on another i810/i815 motherboard, locks up the same way.

Tested the same newly imaged Ultracade drive on an i965 (?) motherboard and there is no lock-up. The system seems to run slowly, but I think that might be due to the audio card. At least it proves that the system works on another board.

One thing I still want to try is using a Creative Labs SoundBlaster-compatible sound card in an Intel-based motherboard. I found a thread by David R. Foley that indicated this is a fairly stable setup typically.

I'm still leaning toward software issue. In my experience with computers, software lock-ups are predictable and repeatable. Hardware-related lock-ups are usually a bit more random. This one I can repeat time and time again which leads me to conclude software-related issue.

That said, I'm going to PM Maxstang and take him up on his offer of an older disc. I will report back with updates.

Thanks again everyone.

 

[Maxstang]

PM sent. I think you're right with your chipset driver guess.

 

[EagleTG]

Let it be known, MaxStang is the MAN. Turns out this was some weird incompatibility between versions. I installed a newer copy (unsure of specific version) of the 86-Game Base pack (on OS version 3.91.3) and am up and running.

WOOT! SO FREAKING EXCITED!

 

[Broodwich]

Let it be known, MaxStang is the MAN. Turns out this was some weird incompatibility between versions. I installed a newer copy (unsure of specific version) of the 86-Game Base pack (on OS version 3.91.3) and am up and running.

WOOT! SO FREAKING EXCITED!

grats!!!! glad it's all fixed! f'n drivers man...

 

[EagleTG]

I've been playing around with this a little more. What I've found is that the 3.91.3 system OS seems to be incompatible with games from the 3.1 base pack that I have.

On this cabinet, I had installed the 3.1 base pack which locked up constantly. I installed the 3.85 (guessing at that version, some games are 3.84, some are 3.85) base pack over-top which appears to have replaced all but around 7 games. (Those games still show up as version 3.1 in the operator menu.)

The newer base pack I have appears to be 3.85 (from the game list within the operator menus). Any game that did not upgrade to the 3.8x version will lock up when the "spinning wheel" menu attempts to play the corresponding game's attract mode. If you can enter the game before the attract mode shows, most will work and play, but then disallow you from exiting the game. Additionally, if you let the system time-out after playing your game, about 50% of the time it will return to the menu system properly, 50% of the time it locks up and the watchguard reboots the system.

Not sure if this helps anyone, but I thought it was interesting information.

 

[amr]

When you install a new version it should 'upgrade' all of the game 'packs' (which are just encrypted/hashed rom sets) to the newest version you are running (just like MAME.)

And someone mentioned the harddrive size - not an issue at all. I have a 250GB disk running on my Ultracade with zero issues.

 

[Maxstang]

Interesting. I'll have to look at my main game set and see how many are versions earlier than 3.85. The set has been built up over time with some REALLY old ones and I'm curious. I've never had the system lock on a game, but I have had difficulty exiting a few games where it briefly shows the exit screen, and then goes back to the game. I've always thought it was an individual game bug, but now I'm curious.

RE the drive size, there's no restriction. In fact, I recommend using a drive or flash that is at least 8 mb depending on the number of games you have installed. There's a bug in the High Score saving feature of the OS that will allow the score table to grow infinitely. If you use too small a drive the system can run out of space and require you to reinstall everything.

 

[EagleTG]

When you install a new version it should 'upgrade' all of the game 'packs' (which are just encrypted/hashed rom sets) to the newest version you are running (just like MAME.)

I had assumed that the games it skipped updating were no longer "licensed" in the newer version of the base pack. I know they had their licensing issues, and wasn't sure if they were getting some heat toward the later versions?

There's a bug in the High Score saving feature of the OS that will allow the score table to grow infinitely. If you use too small a drive the system can run out of space and require you to reinstall everything.

This is a good tip, and one I didn't know. I will definitely upgrade, as I'm currently running on one smaller than 8 GB.

I also plan on testing more, and will report back with my findings. I want to run the same "upgrade" on one of my other drives and see if it still leaves things at 3.1. I also want to see if I do a fresh install (non-upgrade) of the base pack if the games in-question are missing. I don't recall all of the games that were affected, but I do know Bubble Bobble, Elevator Action, and Zookeeper were three of them.

 

[Maxstang]

Actually I think the problem is the 3.91 OS. By 3.91 they'd lost some licenses. If you wipe the drive and install the 3.86 OS with the 3.86 gamepack, you should end up with all the games. I'd be very surprised if there were games on your old original pack that aren't on the base pack I sent you. You may have to format the drive with windows or DOS before because I don't think the OS will let you downgrade. The codes you have should still work...I think.

 

[Maxstang]

Also, the three games you mentioned, Zookeeper et al are all version 3.95 on my machine and they came from the 86 game pack. They all work too.