Two Sanyo 20EVZs with geometry shenanigans

[jimbodeanny]

I pulled the two Sanyo 20EVZ monitors that are in the Super Punch-Out I'm restoring, as both of them have similar issues. I went through and recapped both of them (with full capkits from Peter @arcadepartsandrepair), since new caps usually fix geometry issues in my experience. After recapping both chassis, I fired them up and verified the B+ was 108v. While the picture looked much better (as expected), the geometry issues were still there. So I replaced the filter caps and B+ POTs on both. I fired them up and dialed the B+ to 108v. Still no change. I found ONE thread that dealt with a pin cushion issue, in which the fix was replacing IC601. I swapped one of the IC601s with one I bought from Peter. Again, no change. I've messed with all of the POTs both on the remote board and chassis itself (h.hold included), but can't adjust it out. At this point, I'm considering sending both chassis in for repair.

I searched through thread after thread, but haven't been able to find anything quite like my issue, other than that one thread I mentioned. It's strange to me that both of these chassis have this issue.

Here are a couple photos of both monitors. It's difficult to take a photo that clearly illustrates the issue, so I drew some lines around the areas that are problematic. Hopefully it helps.

Here's the first (upper) monitor:







And the second (lower) monitor:












Has anyone else experienced this?

Again, here's a recap of what I've done.
- Recapped both monitors (w/capkits from Arcadepartsandrepair)
- Replaced filter caps (w/ones from Arcadepartsandrepair)
- Replaced B+ POTs (w/ones from Arcadepartsandrepair)
- Tried swapping IC601 (w/one from Arcadepartsandrepair)

I don't want to spend too much more time poking around with these monitors as this is holding up my restoration, but thought I'd ask before sending these off for repair.

Thanks

-Jim

 

[TheYeti]

Since both monitors are doing it, I would suspect that NOT both of them are having this exact issue. That would be one heck of a coincidence.

Do you have the means to test these in another Nintendo game? Or even a TPG?

Isolating these monitors outside of the cabinet would cut the problem in half.

 

[jimbodeanny]

Since both monitors are doing it, I would suspect that NOT both of them are having this exact issue. That would be one heck of a coincidence.

Do you have the means to test these in another Nintendo game? Or even a TPG?

Isolating these monitors outside of the cabinet would cut the problem in half.

I've used the TPG on them to color balance them after recapping them, but I do know the TPG isn't always the greatest at representing the geometry in terms of what the game will do.







I did try a second Punch-Out PCB in this cabinet and it showed the same issue so I know it's not the board.

The only other Nintendo game I've got near me is a Red Tent. I suppose I could try it in that?

 

[TheYeti]

Hmmm, I wasn't expecting that you would have the same results with the TPG. And yes...the TPG will not necessarily represent the same screen positioning as a game will but...

The fact that you are having the EXACT geometry issues on the TPG as you are on your game is pretty dang interesting. It would probably be a real pain to test them on your Red Tent but it would definitively prove the issue is isolated to the monitors.

That is so weird and crazy that it's happening to both.

 

[jimbodeanny]

Hmmm, I wasn't expecting that you would have the same results with the TPG. And yes...the TPG will not necessarily represent the same screen positioning as a game will but...

The fact that you are having the EXACT geometry issues on the TPG as you are on your game is pretty dang interesting. It would probably be a real pain to test them on your Red Tent but it would definitively prove the issue is isolated to the monitors.

That is so weird and crazy that it's happening to both.

Right?! I'm completely puzzled. I'm going to try to rig up an power extension cord so I can test the same Punch-Out boards, using the Red Tent's power.

 

[jimbodeanny]

Well I just finished tested the monitors, using the Red Tent's power brick, and the same exact issue exists. So I guess I can confirm that it's not a power issue or PCB issue. Both monitors seem to be the culprit. Bizarre. Time to have a pro look at them. *sigh*

 

[TheYeti]

Man...that's a bummer. This issue is already strange enough by itself, let alone having it in 2 different monitors.

These monitors are starting to get old enough now that odd components are bound to fail.

I hope this isn't something simple. Would hate to have you send these in for repair if it was just bad pot or something.

 

[Jamesv833]

Have you tried powering the monitor itself from another 100v source?
I'm not sure but I'd think the red tent power supply should be able to power one of the 19" since it handles both 18".
Strange

 

[jimbodeanny]

Have you tried powering the monitor itself from another 100v source?
I'm not sure but I'd think the red tent power supply should be able to power one of the 19" since it handles both 18".
Strange

Yes, the Red Tent has the same style power brick, supplying 100v to two monitors.

 

[Jamesv833]

Yes, the Red Tent has the same style power brick, supplying 100v to two monitors.

Very strange that it's happening to both of the monitors and it's still doing it with all you've tried to rule out.
I'm not sure if the power connection is the same but you can try pulling one of the monitors from the red tent and see if it still does it, I know it's a pita but it'll help isolate the issue.

 

[jimbodeanny]

Well, I did some stuff and am more baffled than ever.

I plugged Super Punch-Out into one of my Red Tent monitors and at first the image appeared fine on the Red Tent monitor, but then I realized the image was stretched a little much horizontally. When I adjusted the horizontal position to reveal an edge, the same problem was there.

This got me thinking about the PP-1000 power supply in Punch-Out. I had previously verified (more than once) that adequate voltage was getting to the board(s) - 5.1v on the PCB. But I had never tried to adjust it.

So I cracked open the PSU and the adjusted VR2 so that there was almost exactly 5v on the board.

No change.


Then I noticed was this.





The big, monster cap in the corner was seriously bulging at the top. I'm not sure if recapping the PSU would fix my issue or not, given I'm getting the right voltage out of it. Unfortunately, I don't have another Nintendo PSU to test on it, so it's only a loose theory at this point.

 

[Jamesv833]

That's great that You've been able to replicate it with your red tent monitor which leads me to believe the two sanyos are good.
I'm sure it wouldn't hurt to recap that power supply but by you using the tpg I would think that ruled out the power supply since I believe it has its own.
I can't recall if I've got the filter board on mine but maybe try with and without(if you've got it), you've got me wondering if I've got the same issue on mine but just stretched the screen a bit.
Monitor frame, pcb cage and any other grounds missing?
If I have time before work in the morn I'll get in there and shrink my screen a bit to check the geometry.
Can't wait till you get this 100% so we can get a gameplay vid!

 

[jimbodeanny]

All grounds are there, and I've removed the filter board long ago.

I'm hoping to bring the monitors and PCB to a local place in the next few days to see if I can get this hammered out.

 

[jimbodeanny]

Okay, so quick update:

I made a long video cable so that I could plug one of my Red Tent games into the Sanyo monitors (that are still being powered by my PunchOut cabinet. I ran Dr. Mario into both Sanyo monitors and the results were interesting.

I had geometry issues, but they weren't the same geometry issues I get with Punch-Out & Super Punch-Out. The main checkerboard screen looked decent and better on the sides (than Punch-Out), but there was still some bowing/convaving on the top. The title screen & high score screens had a mix of concave & convex issues, a couple of tiny areas in the corners and I noticed that the title screen had a tiny pulse/blooming to it.

Here are some photos.

Sanyo monitor #1 (the lower monitor in PunchOut):









Sanyo monitor #2 (the upper monitor in PunchOut):









And here are photos of the monitor in my Red Tent for comparison (notice how square the image is on the top & bottom):









This makes me suspect the Sanyo monitors definitely have some issue(s). I'm also wondering if the board(s) need something done to them (like a cap kit) to produce a better picture? Clearly the PCB has characteristics of its own that affects the monitor picture. It's also worth noting that both my Punch-Out & Super Punch-Out boards have been repaired already.

 

[jimbodeanny]

Update:

I'm taking both complete monitors, power supply, power brick and a PCB to Paradise Arcade to see if their repair guys can help solve this puzzle.

Depending on what the results are, I may be sending both chassis in to Buffett or Chad for inspection/repair. This is driving me crazy. I don't remember the last time (if ever) I faced such an annoying geometry issue, ESPECIALLY from a Sanyo. *SIGH*

 

[jimbodeanny]

Update:

I took the monitors to Paradise today to have their techs look at them. They powered them on, plugged a TPG in and were able to see the issue. I got the "oh, it's probably not going to get better than that" response, which was a bit disappointing.

I'm convinced that some part(s) on both chassis have drifted out of spec (given these issues were there prior to recapping them.) Now I just need to figure out who to send them to. The saga continues...*SIGH*

 

[jimbodeanny]

Update:

Sending both chassis out tomorrow.