Twilight Zone $ Check

I'm not doubting Matt's skill, I just disagree that TZ doesn't have great shots. It's definitely a stop and go game, and some people just don't like that style, but it definitely has great shots.

Let's all just agree on one thing: South Park is a worthless pinball machine. :D

But IJ is even MORE guilty of repetitive shots than TZ is. I've owned both (kept my TZ), but IJ is very limited in its shots. Orbits, two ramps, a HORRIBLE mode start, and, well, that's about it. Also the video modes are great for about a month, then you just want to get through them and move on.
 
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jar155 said:
But IJ is even MORE guilty of repetitive shots than TZ is. I've owned both (kept my TZ), but IJ is very limited in its shots. Orbits, two ramps, a HORRIBLE mode start, and, well, that's about it. Also the video modes are great for about a month, then you just want to get through them and move on.
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I agree with the IJ thing. It's the only "A" title Bally/Williams game that I will never own again. I don't play my TZ often but it runs circles around the IJ game play.
 
IJ is sure a dang nice looking game though. That's what the hardest part about selling it was. It's almost like an art piece in the game room. Great sound too.
 
jar155 said:
IJ is sure a dang nice looking game though. That's what the hardest part about selling it was. It's almost like an art piece in the game room. Great sound too.
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Totally agree on IJ looks pretty especially if you gold plate the side rails, ramps, legs and lock down bar.

I had the same issue with my BBB (Big Bang Bar). I am not saying that BBB was a bad playing game but what really makes the game is the sound package and the artwork.
 
Ok, here is an *opinion* and experience with Tz. First to the OP - 3200 for a slightly faded, average cab. Thats what i see them going for. Last year, around october, i got lucky and found one of those on CL for 2500. If you wait awhile, they show up.

As for the game. This will be my second TZ (its awaiting a full restore). When i had it here the first time, guests loved it. My wife loved it - more than any other pin ive had through here (11 or so in the last two years). I sold it out from under her - there was another game i had my eye on.

Since then, ive had the TSPP, IJ, HS2, TAF, etc etc (AFM, RFM, LOTR, the list goes on, seriously). Some stayed longer than others. Games that stayed by the way are SM and IM (great pins!) and the TZ is coming back.

Why? The whole package works. Rules, theme, sounds, toys, shots. The only problem i have with the game is if you cant get it "lit up", its just no good. In other words, once in a while, everything flows for you, and the game is an amazing experience, like no other. Once you get a few doors lit up, a few m balls, and you catch a groove, the game takes off. Thats what makes it good (to me).

Is it frustrating? Yes. Lots of opps. for the ball to shoot right in your face - bumpers are near you, lots of posts staring at you. Not an easy machine to get started on. But very rewarding.

For the comment on shots - well my take - Piano shot, right orbit, left orbit, camera shot, dead end shot (oh my - now theres a sweetheart), hitchhiker shot, you have 2 ramps, slot machine shot, the clock, the lock shot (that is another of my favorites), and i am probably forgetting one. I cant think of a more rewarding shot than the right orbit to load the gumball machine. I have yet to play a game that has so many, and some of them really feel good to make. Take your pick on your favorite. The only shot that sucks is the skill shot - man they bombed on that one.

The other comment about TSPP - i followed that one too and tried it - The software is better, The theme and humor are much better. But for me, it wasnt the same experience, nothing really made me light up. Granted, ALOT of people love that game, and something hit their sweet spot, so i am not discounting it. Just not my cup.
 
I love these "pissing" matches that fall slightly short of having a "my dick is bigger than yours" contest.

I admit, when I hear people talk shit about a game that gives me a hard on it gets me a tad bitter :)
There are certain games that without ANY doubt in my mind do NOT belong on the top 10 list. I laugh at games that were shit earners and they got blown out the door for pennies on the dollar but yet now they are some of the greatest games? For real? C'mon what has changed from back then to now? It;s the same damn machine and people are people. Does this mean these games were ahead of their time? I highly doubt it. It's about the hype and so called status of owning one. I'm not one of those whiny bitches that complain because I can;t afford one .... I just don't enjoy them nor can I justify that much money into one pin. The most I've ever spent on a pin was $2600 for my LOTR and believe me when I say I had a major problem pulling the trigger. To add one valid point I can buy a routed TZ in nice shape for the same amount. But if there is ANY saving grace to the expense, it's the fact that my wife and I found something else to do together. That in itself is worth all the money in the world. I can only hope this is the very same reason guys spend that much money on the so called top 10 list.

/rant off
 
Johnathan, great points. When I got into pinball around age 16-18 (circa 1992-94) TZ was an incredible game, and I think it still is. I own 3 pins from this era that I grew up on (GN'R, HS2, T2) and am looking to expand. The longevity of TZ exsits heavily and I believe that due to its all-around game play. From what Im reading if I can scoop it up around 3K that seems like a good deal.
Plus - the "hype" and "top 10 lists" do sway my decision making somewhat...

Deadly- If I buy TZ, and I KNOW that in a year from now I can sell it AT LEAST for the same price I purchased it (if not more$$$). Then, where is your reasoning for your "justification of spending that much money on a pin"?
I know I'll play it for FREE, for however long I own it. I think TZs popularity is 18 years and counting now...
The question is - are you really spending the money when you know that you can get it back anytime?
 
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jar155 said:
As opposed to just slapping the button every time the ball gets near your flippers? Pretty much every game requires ball control.
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:) That's exactly what I was thinking. There are tons on satisfying shots in TZ, but you have to make them. And some are very challenging.

Is TZ overhyped? Probably. But there is no denying that it's a quality table. Saying otherwise is just trying to be "too cool for school."
 
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Twilight Zone got sold off for pennies on the dollar because A) they produced too many of them on the heels of Addams Family that was still earning huge, and B) it's far more suited to a home environment due to all the modes and rules. The game was just a bit confusing to walk up to and understand in a noisy arcade environment.

Once TZ started getting in the private collections, people took a longer look at it and really begin to enjoy it. Many games get more love these days than they did back in arcades. Cirqus Voltaire (a game I actually don't care much for) was also one that was a dud with operators, but it's quite expensive now.
 
Kayrock - yes - TZ was my first Pin experience too. I worked in a pizzeria and we never worked cause we played that game all day. It was brand new, i still remember how shiny and mint it was. Years later, i sought one out just for that, and was happy to find it holds up.

TZ was a commercial dissapointment (somewhat). It had Addams Family to top, and many complained that the approach to adding complexity was what hurt it. It was a big run though - over 15k units.Whats funny is as much as it was considered a let down, when i speak to NON pinballers (pretty much everyone!) they all know TZ and TAF - all of the others they have no idea about.

As far as resale - Pinball machines have an incredible resale power. I dont think ive ever sold a pin for less than i bought it for (except in a trade i did where the items i bought in were lower). For Alist titles, they usually sell within a couple of days. I am serious - i was always worried about sitting on the game, while i needed the room freed up, but always just sold quick (except Revenge from mars - that game wouldnt leave and i couldnt get rid of it fast enough). I am sure my location helps (NY).

I am not in it for money - but it helps to know that they are somewhat more Liquid than videos. TZ is always being sought after - thats why if you see one for less than 3k in decent condition, jump on it fast. When that one appeared on CL for 2500, i was on the line with the guy and closed out in less than an hour.
 
Deadly said:
I laugh at games that were shit earners and they got blown out the door for pennies on the dollar but yet now they are some of the greatest games? For real? C'mon what has changed from back then to now?
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Money earned on location isn't really an accurate measure of fun in a home environment. I probably would have played 1-2 games of TZ on location and never played it again. Same is true of many games I now own. Playing it for free I can actually appreciate and enjoy it. That's why a lot of the later games didn't earn well on location (among many). They were too damn complicated for the average player to get into. At least that's Pat Lawlor's opinion.

Deadly said:
I'm not one of those whiny bitches that complain because I can;t afford one .... I just don't enjoy them nor can I justify that much money into one pin. The most I've ever spent on a pin was $2600 for my LOTR and believe me when I say I had a major problem pulling the trigger. To add one valid point I can buy a routed TZ in nice shape for the same amount. But if there is ANY saving grace to the expense, it's the fact that my wife and I found something else to do together. That in itself is worth all the money in the world. I can only hope this is the very same reason guys spend that much money on the so called top 10 list.
/rant off
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You contradicted yourself by saying you can't justify putting that much money into a pin then saying you bought a LOTR. Maybe you can't justify putting that much money into a game you don't like which makes total sense but obviously some people's TZ is your LOTR so how is it any different? The only difference is you personally like one game more than the other.

To be clear I'm not defending TZ because I own one. I already said it was overpriced. There are games I enjoy more that were half the price. I know I'll make money on it so any joy I might get out of it beyond that is gravy. My opinion would be the same owning the game or not. Posting on this thread isn't going to make the value of my game go up.
 
Sounds like the OP is familiar with TZ and is a fan. That was my only concern. You should buy a game because you like to play it, not because someone told you it was good.
And while the prices of pins have steadily increased for quite a while now, you shouldn't count on that lasting forever. Treating your pins like investments just sucks all the fun out of it....
 
mattosborn said:
Sounds like the OP is familiar with TZ and is a fan. That was my only concern. You should buy a game because you like to play it, not because someone told you it was good.
And while the prices of pins have steadily increased for quite a while now, you shouldn't count on that lasting forever. Treating your pins like investments just sucks all the fun out of it....
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I agree on all points. Buy what you like and don't let anyone else tell you otherwise. Its nice to solicit opinions but everyone has a different one and that's what makes hobbies fun.
 
jar155 said:
I'm not doubting Matt's skill, I just disagree that TZ doesn't have great shots. It's definitely a stop and go game, and some people just don't like that style, but it definitely has great shots.

Let's all just agree on one thing: South Park is a worthless pinball machine. :D

But IJ is even MORE guilty of repetitive shots than TZ is. I've owned both (kept my TZ), but IJ is very limited in its shots. Orbits, two ramps, a HORRIBLE mode start, and, well, that's about it. Also the video modes are great for about a month, then you just want to get through them and move on.
Click to expand...

That's funny...I was at a party last night, and TZ & IJ were side by side. I used to own an IJ, and it just never connected w/ me....but, I totally understand the rules. TZ on the otherhand, I've never quite understood the gameplay....but the one I played last night was very smooth, played great, and was fun to shoot....but I still don't get it....lol. My girlfriend *looooved* TZ, though! I told her "there ya go....that's YOUR first pin" hehe.

As for prices - TZ seems like it's all over the map. I've seen them as low as $2000 and as high as $4500 ...I guess condition/mods make a huge difference on price.
 
jar155 said:
B) it's far more suited to a home environment due to all the modes and rules. The game was just a bit confusing to walk up to and understand in a noisy arcade environment.
Click to expand...

Exactly. When TZ was new in the arcade I loved the look of it but never enjoyed the gameplay. After playing the game quite a bit in private collections I have taken the time to fully understand and appreciate the nuances of the game rules and absolutely love playing it.
 
splattergatz said:
what i was asking was, can you give us one or more examples of what you think fun games are, pertaining to your criteria ?

just curious, thats all
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Probably not a good idea to mention specific games... that would likely spark a tirade of responses about why they suck. :rolleyes:

If you haven't listened to the TOPcast interview with Pat Lawlor, it's definitely worth checking out:

http://www.pinrepair.com/topcast/topcast_64.mp3
http://www.pinrepair.com/topcast/topcast_64p2.mp3
http://www.pinrepair.com/topcast/topcast_64p3.mp3

Part 2 has some discussion on TZ, and Pat mentions one of his fast games with good "flow".
 
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