Tube Swap

Slackmoe

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Just did my first tube swap. 4600 with a H/C short in red gun was an xl 100 tv the horz and vert imped's were off a little bit but she works just fine

df2ae462.jpg


Andrew
 
Just did my first tube swap. 4600 with a H/C short in red gun was an xl 100 tv the horz and vert imped's were off a little bit but she works just fine

df2ae462.jpg


Andrew

Nice job. What's an xl 100 tv? How did you figure out which one would be compatible? I'm wanting to do this with a g07 but don't have a clue how to find the right tv.
 
Nice job. What's an xl 100 tv? How did you figure out which one would be compatible? I'm wanting to do this with a g07 but don't have a clue how to find the right tv.

RCA called a whole huge series of sets "XL 100" starting some time in the 70's. They came in all shapes and sizes, and I think the name stuck around into the late 90's. It stood for "eXtended Life, 100% solid state" - i.e, all transistors, no tubes or nuvistors.

Here's how you find a TV to swap tubes with: go out on trash night, and find 80's/early 90's era 19" TV sets and pick them up. Take the back off and compare the neck connector on the tube to the one in the arcade monitor. There are only a couple of different types of neck connector out there. If it uses the same neck connector, then it's electrically compatible.

Then unplug the yoke connector from the board, and measure the DC resistance of the horizontal and vertical yoke windings. Compare this to the ones from your arcade monitor. If they're really close, then you should be able to just plug and play (or adapt the plugs and play). If they are too far off, then you'll have to swap the yokes. In general, you want to keep the yoke with the chassis and swap only the tube, but you can cheat if the yokes measure close enough.

-Ian
 
Theres a spreadsheet somebody did on here any tube that starts with a48 will work with a G07, 4600, 4900, cr23 adapter but I got lucky with the tv being a very close match look through the vents with a flashlight at the tube number

Andrew
 
What he said

Andrew

QUOTE=RetroHacker;1608174]RCA called a whole huge series of sets "XL 100" starting some time in the 70's. They came in all shapes and sizes, and I think the name stuck around into the late 90's. It stood for "eXtended Life, 100% solid state" - i.e, all transistors, no tubes or nuvistors.

Here's how you find a TV to swap tubes with: go out on trash night, and find 80's/early 90's era 19" TV sets and pick them up. Take the back off and compare the neck connector on the tube to the one in the arcade monitor. There are only a couple of different types of neck connector out there. If it uses the same neck connector, then it's electrically compatible.

Then unplug the yoke connector from the board, and measure the DC resistance of the horizontal and vertical yoke windings. Compare this to the ones from your arcade monitor. If they're really close, then you should be able to just plug and play (or adapt the plugs and play). If they are too far off, then you'll have to swap the yokes. In general, you want to keep the yoke with the chassis and swap only the tube, but you can cheat if the yokes measure close enough.

-Ian[/QUOTE]
 
any tube that starts with a48 will work with a G07, 4600, 4900, cr23 adapter

Almost. A48 is the prefix meaning a 19" tube. The "48" is the size in centipedes, or centimeters, or something like that - it's a foreign measurement system that we don't use here :D. There exist several tubes that begin with A48 that don't use the CR23 adapter. If you want to look up a tube number, the manual for the B&K picture tube tester has pretty much all tubes listed, along with the connector they use - but, even then, occasionally you'll find one not on the list.

There are *thousands* of different models of TV sets. And not all TV model numbers make sense, or are even on the back of the set. Trying to document them all is futile. It's much easier to just grab sets that might work, and check them when you get home. Some TV's are actually 20" tubes, gotta watch out for those, they won't fit in an arcade monitor frame without modification. Bring a measuring tape if you can't tell by looking. Also, if you have a picture tube tester, test the tube first. I've found some sets with really, really weak picture tubes. Some people left their televisions on all the time, the tube might have more hours on it than the arcade tube you're replacing!

Also note that Sony Trinitron sets will NOT work. They're different. You should still pick them up if you find a really nice 80's one. Those woodgrain Trinitron sets have the most awesome picture.

-Ian
 
thanks for that.

Andrew

Almost. A48 is the prefix meaning a 19" tube. The "48" is the size in centipedes, or centimeters, or something like that - it's a foreign measurement system that we don't use here :D. There exist several tubes that begin with A48 that don't use the CR23 adapter. If you want to look up a tube number, the manual for the B&K picture tube tester has pretty much all tubes listed, along with the connector they use - but, even then, occasionally you'll find one not on the list.

There are *thousands* of different models of TV sets. And not all TV model numbers make sense, or are even on the back of the set. Trying to document them all is futile. It's much easier to just grab sets that might work, and check them when you get home. Some TV's are actually 20" tubes, gotta watch out for those, they won't fit in an arcade monitor frame without modification. Bring a measuring tape if you can't tell by looking. Also, if you have a picture tube tester, test the tube first. I've found some sets with really, really weak picture tubes. Some people left their televisions on all the time, the tube might have more hours on it than the arcade tube you're replacing!

Also note that Sony Trinitron sets will NOT work. They're different. You should still pick them up if you find a really nice 80's one. Those woodgrain Trinitron sets have the most awesome picture.

-Ian
 
RCA called a whole huge series of sets "XL 100" starting some time in the 70's. They came in all shapes and sizes, and I think the name stuck around into the late 90's. It stood for "eXtended Life, 100% solid state" - i.e, all transistors, no tubes or nuvistors.

Here's how you find a TV to swap tubes with: go out on trash night, and find 80's/early 90's era 19" TV sets and pick them up. Take the back off and compare the neck connector on the tube to the one in the arcade monitor. There are only a couple of different types of neck connector out there. If it uses the same neck connector, then it's electrically compatible.

Then unplug the yoke connector from the board, and measure the DC resistance of the horizontal and vertical yoke windings. Compare this to the ones from your arcade monitor. If they're really close, then you should be able to just plug and play (or adapt the plugs and play). If they are too far off, then you'll have to swap the yokes. In general, you want to keep the yoke with the chassis and swap only the tube, but you can cheat if the yokes measure close enough.

-Ian

Almost. If you have to swap yokes your results will be mixed, to say the least. Sometimes you might get lucky and the arcade yoke will work well with the TV tube, but many times it won't. Yokes need to match the TV's guns just as much as they need to match the chassis, and the guns will vary from tube to tube, even though the neck connector is the same.
 
Almost. If you have to swap yokes your results will be mixed, to say the least. Sometimes you might get lucky and the arcade yoke will work well with the TV tube, but many times it won't. Yokes need to match the TV's guns just as much as they need to match the chassis, and the guns will vary from tube to tube, even though the neck connector is the same.

This is true... For reference, what he's talking about is that different tubes have the electron guns in slightly different places relative to the bell of the tube, and relative to each other. Therefore, when you swap a yoke onto a tube it wasn't meant for, sometimes it's hard (or impossible) to converge. In general, you can get it to work by sliding the yoke around, and playing with the position of the convergence rings. But there are a couple combinations where you'll never get a fully converged picture. In which case, you just have to try another tube. Even a tube that won't converge 100% is OK for some games, since you can almost always get the center fine, it's the corners that won't go. Those little convergence strips help, but sometimes that won't do it either.

Also, when you swap in a tube, you'll usually have to readjust all the colors (i.e. grayscale and color balance) - those knobs were set for the old tube, not the new one. Some tubes have more sensitive guns than others, too.

But... what's supposed to work and what actually does work are two separate things. Once you've seen a 90 degree television tube in a 6100, and properly converged, you know just about anything is possible.

Also, word of wisdom. Don't even *think* about trying to converge a monitor without a crosshatch pattern. Most newer game boards can produce one in test mode. If you don't have one that does, go buy some cheap crummy Jamma board that does. I use a Mortal Kombat board on my test rig. I don't even have the sound board that goes with it, I just use it for monitor patterns.

-Ian
 
Once you've seen a 90 degree television tube in a 6100, and properly converged, you know just about anything is possible.

No offense, but I call bullshit on that. Unless you can provide proof.

Tube swapping is a hit or miss process. Best place to start is the B&K setup charts, found here:

http://www.bkprecision.com/support/downloads/pdfs/CRT_Setup_Chart.pdf

Find the tube number of your ailing tube, and cross it against the potential donor. If the heater voltage & neck socket connector match, then it's a start.

Next up is the yoke. Try like hell to use the yoke that's on the TV if you can. Use Orion's website for guidance on what TV models have yokes that may be compatible. You can also try ohming out the vertical windings to see if the TV's yoke is close to the monitor chassis' yoke, but resistance does NOT equal impedance. If you must swap yokes, be careful about the convergence ring assemblies. They stay with the tube.

Be prepared to swap tubes and yokes and get a shitty picture that you can't converge. It's happened to me several times. Not much you can do at this point - try again. At least 19" tube TV's are free, and easily moved around. You can also dispose of them easily at Best Buy by paying them $10, and they give you a $10 gift card.

I've successfully transplanted a tube into my g07 that I rebuilt. I now have a perfect, bulletproof, burn-free, converged, beautiful G07. But it took me 3 tubes to get there.
 
I use a Mortal Kombat board on my test rig. I don't even have the sound board that goes with it, I just use it for monitor patterns.

-Ian
Finally someone found something useful to do with a MK PCB :) :) ;)

Quick question, are you guys able to see if a tube is 90 or antyhing else degrees by looking at a picture ?

I was wondering about this tube what angle it is and if it would be suitable.

The code of the tube is 510WFB22 and I can't find anything about it on the net...

I have reasons to believe it's a RELL tube..
 

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Finally someone found something useful to do with a MK PCB :) :) ;)

Quick question, are you guys able to see if a tube is 90 or antyhing else degrees by looking at a picture ?

I was wondering about this tube what angle it is and if it would be suitable.

The code of the tube is 510WFB22 and I can't find anything about it on the net...

I have reasons to believe it's a RELL tube..

That looks 90 degree to me.

Edward
 
Yeah, that's a 90 degree tube. It's also a 20" tube, so creative mounting in an arcade monitor frame is required. The beginning numbers are the size of the tube in some metric thing (centipedes, centimeters, something like that :D). A tube that begins with 48 is a 19" tube.

-Ian
 
Well, they are NOS and I can get 3 of them for a good price....would they work on Hantarex chassis ?

Or G07 ?

The label mentions National Electronics as the manufacturer, never heard of that, but there was also a phone number and when I googled that it led to the RELL site. Also the logo is the same as Richardson Electronics AND they say "Made in the USA".
 
They're a no-go for the g07.

Not sure on the hantarex.

For the trouble you'd incur in retro-fitting a 20" tube into a 19" housing, I'd say save your efforts for finding some free 19" TVs with better tube candidates. You'll spend less time with them, and less money too.
 
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