Troubleshooting Satan's Hollow issues

Scott C

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I have a Satan's Hollow mini with the following issues. The game does coin-up and play.

- The monitor has a lot of thin, vertical lines through it so the image is visible,
but hard to read.
- The coin door and marquee do not work and are not receiving any voltage.
- The game sounds do not work.

I have done the following to troubleshoot, but haven't made any progress.

- Replaced the boardset with no change.
- Replace the power supply (90412) with another board and get either the above
or video trash, so this is not a conclusive test since that other PS board may be
bad.
- Tested the 3-pin connector with two wires that goes into the bottom plug on the
PS. It reads 12.4 to 13.2 VAC.
- Replaced the monitor chassis (WG4806) and see the exact same problems.
- Tried the game without the two plugs on the bottom of the power supply board
and see the same vertical line issue on the monitor.

Where does the voltage for the coin door and marquee lines come from? Remember this is a mini. Anyone have any suggestions? The fuse on the PS board and the three in the bottom of the cabinet all read good.

Scott C.
 
As a follow-up, I also tested the monitor with nothing but power applied. When I turned-up the brightness slightley I could see the same vertical lines. With two working chassis showing the same results, that leads me to two possible causes.

- Bad tube
- Bad power going to the monitor, so a power ISO, line filter, etc.

That doesn't explain the lack of sound and coin/marquee lights, however.

Scott C.
 
Satan

The sound and the marquee lights both work off of 12VDC. See if you have that coming out of the 90412 for starters. If you do. It is being lost in a connection down stream somewhere.
 
I'm still working on the sound, but did get the monitor fixed by replacing it. :) The problem has to be the tube itself since I tested with two chassis, ran it on a totally separate line filter and iso, from a separate AC outlet, disconnecting everything to the monitor except AC including the degaussing coil. Too bad since it is a nice tube.

I'll post an update when I solve the coin, marquee and sound issue. The +12vdc is measuring +12.06 across C102 and +5vdc is measuring +5.06 across C106. My 90412 power supply board is a B revision.

Scott C.
 
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I swapped in an MCR to Switcher kit today from my working TRON. Unfortunately, there are still not marquee and coin door lights, and no sound. Unless I am missing something, the only things left are the wiring, sound pot, and speakers. I know the light bulbs are good, but just not getting any voltage. Since all of those run on +12v it has to be something before that voltage is split. Hopefully, that is documented in the schematics.

The search continues.

Scott C.
 
The general illumination lighting leaves the power supply board at connector J5 pins #14 and #11. This is a different 12VDC line from the one you measured at C102. This is an unregulated line. Measure this voltage across cap C101.

Edward
 
The general illumination lighting leaves the power supply board at connector J5 pins #14 and #11. This is a different 12VDC line from the one you measured at C102. This is an unregulated line. Measure this voltage across cap C101.

Edward
Alright, this makes no sense. I measured C101 and get no + or - voltage (looking for +12v), but I do get a solid +5.06 and +12.06 across the other two caps (C106 and C102). To ensure the 90412 was the problem I installed the MCR switching kit from my working TRON and still had no lights or sounds. If the 90412 was the issue, then why would I get nothing from that switcher kit as well? Voltage coming in from J6 reads +10.1v to +13.6v (fluated and then started climbing slowly to the +13.6v)

I tested and do get continuity on the top center pin and the pin below it on the J5 collector to the coin door and marquee lights. Just no actual voltage.

Scott C.
 
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On the 90412 power supply, you've got three separate power circuits.....a 5VDC regulated circuit filtered at C106......a 12VDC regulated circuit filtered at C102......and a 12VDC unregulated circuit filtered at C101. Your two regulated circuits are working find....so let's focus attention on the unregulated circuit. The two wires at connector J6 are AC volts. You should measure voltage across these two wires (meter's red lead on one, black lead on the other...meter set at AC volts). If this is what you did to get the 13.xx volts....was this unpluged from the power supply board?...

Sounds like you've got one of two things happening.....something is shorted and dragging down the voltage (this I doubt because you should blow the fuse in this condition....but you never know). Or your transformer is dying under load.

Unplug connector J1 on the Dual Amp board, remove all the mini-lamps, and unplug the coin door's harness connector. Fire it up and measure DC volts across one of the empty lamp sockets. You should see 10-16VDC. If this is good....install one good mini-lamp (make sure it's a good lamp....it's uncommon, but I've seen them short). Fire it back up and measure again (if you have juice, the lamp will light). No juice now, but you had juice before the installation of the lamp....I'd seriously suspect the tramsformer.

On a side note: You are getting the same results with the switcher kit because the switcher kit does not supply voltage for this circuit via the switching power supply. The games original design is mimicked on the small circuit board of the kit (note the larger diodes and capacitor).

Edward
 
one thing you should check is your +5 at a rom on the ssio board. mcr boards are notorious for big voltage drops. my satan's hollow has a .4 or .5v drop between the power supply and boardset. so check that, and adjust if necessary, and see if that helps anything. a really low +5 can cause sound and video issues.
 
Thanks for the info guys. I'll check those and post back.

Scott C.
 
Thanks for the suggestions, guys. I tested and have the following results...

I tried the ELutz suggestions and found despite all of that I am still seeing 0VDC for any of the lights, their sockets, or the wiring harness going to the marquee lights. I also measured pins 14 and 11 on J5 and still have 0VDC. I tried testing all of the points with various things plugged and unplugged, still no voltage. I hooked-up a switcher to the marquee lights and they lit, so the marquee lights are not the issue.

Measuring the voltage at the PS was showing +5.06vDC, but at the board PROM it showed +4.76vDC. I maxed out the pot and the PROM now reads +5.07vDC. The game played with the voltage at +4.76 and still plays at +5.07vDC, but still no sounds. :(

I remeasured the 3-pin (two wires) corrector going into the PS and still read a solid +12.5-13.0VAC with it unplugged. However, this time I tested it with it plugged into the PS and found the voltage dropped to a solid +0.03VAC! Therefore, it looks like the PS is dragging down the +12VAC transformer.

What else besides +12vAC runs off that transformer?

On a side-note, are we talking about the same MCR Switcher kit since looking at my TRON I don't see another way the coin door and marquee lights are being powered. The +12VAC (2 wires in a 3-pin plug as mentioned above) plugs into the MCR switcher kit. I must be missing something...

Scott C.
 
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I remeasured the 3-pin (two wires) corrector going into the PS and still read a solid +12.5-13.0VAC with it unplugged. However, this time I tested it with it plugged into the PS and found the voltage dropped to a solid +0.03VAC! Therefore, it looks like the PS is dragging down the +12VAC transformer.

What else besides +12vAC runs off that transformer?

When you took this measurment and got .03VAC......did you have everything unplugged...coin door harness plug unplugged, dual amp board unplugged, and all mini-lamps removed?

Edward
 
When you took this measurment and got .03VAC......did you have everything unplugged...coin door harness plug unplugged, dual amp board unplugged, and all mini-lamps removed?

Edward
Yes, I did. I just did the test again and the measurement was 0.04VAC. If I measure the voltage at the plug with it unplugged from the PS, it does take a minute or so for the voltage to climb back to 12-13VAC.

Scott C.
 
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Well, that circuit only consists of a few parts on the power supply.....diodes D101, D102, D103, D104, D105....and capacitor C101. That's it.

Edward
 
Well, that circuit only consists of a few parts on the power supply.....diodes D101, D102, D103, D104, D105....and capacitor C101. That's it.

Edward
OK, is it the PS causing the failure or is it the transformer that is dying under load? If it were the PS, then wouldn't the MCR switcher kit that does use that +12VAC have worked? Since it didn't seems like the transformer may be the issue. I'm going to hunt around for a +12vAC transformer or PS. Does anyone know what the amperage is suppose to be for the +12vAC?

Scott C.
 
OK, is it the PS causing the failure or is it the transformer that is dying under load? If it were the PS, then wouldn't the MCR switcher kit that does use that +12VAC have worked? Since it didn't seems like the transformer may be the issue. I'm going to hunt around for a +12vAC transformer or PS. Does anyone know what the amperage is suppose to be for the +12vAC?

Scott C.

That is true.....the only thing left is the transformer.
As Jim stated....that line is fused with a 3 amp fuse.....so, a transformer rated at 3 amps or higher would be fine.

Edward
 
Sounds good. I'll dig into that further and report back.

Scott C.
 
OK, this is weird but true...

Up to this point, I have been testing the +12vAC from the 3-pin/2 wire connector that plugs into the PS board. I decided to try testing at the main transformer and got the same +13.1vAC. However, I noticed the transformer terminals were pretty dirty, so I cleaned them, retested, and then plugged the 3-pin/2 wire connector in the PS board to test that voltage one last time. Well, this time I was getting +12v.1vAC at the plug with it under load! What??? I rechecked my work and found it was correct. The marquee and coin door were not plugged in and neither was J1 on the dual amp board. I plugged in the coin door and saw the lights turns on as well as the coin counter click! Hey, I have lights. I plugged in the cable to J1 on the dual amp and now have sounds! Double yeh! I plugged in the marquee lights and now have power at the plugs, but still no lights (the bulbs are all good). Therefore, I am making progress, but still can't explain it other than the dirt shorting out the +12vAC...

On a side now, I am now seeing some "twitching" in the main ship sprite graphics which wasn't happening until the +12vAC started flowing... Hmmm....

Scott C.
 
To wrap-up this thread, here is how the game stands...

The game now works 100% and the solutions are outlined below.

Problem: No coin door and marquee lights, plus no game sounds. Further, no +12vAC coming into the PS.
Solution: Check the cables and clean the dirt off the +12vAC output transformer terminals. These are the green and orange wires going into the 3-pin connector that plugs into bottom of the PS.

Problem: No power to the marquee lights.
Solution: After fixing the above issue with the +12vAC, clean and adjust bad pins in the marquee light wiring connector.

Problems: The character sprites are a little jumpy (moves erratically)
Solution: Turn down the +5vDC slightly (0.2vDC for me)

Note: The transformer is putting out +13.1vAC, the PS is receiving +12.1vAC, the coin door is receiving +10.3vDC and the marquee lights are receiving +9.9vDC. Clearly, there is voltage loss across the wires and pin connectors. The pins themselves do show some oxidation/corrosion so cleaning or replacing the pins should help reduce the voltage loss. A similar voltage loss is seen from the +5vDC to the game board (PS is outputting +5.6vDC while the boardset is receiving +5.1vDC).

Scott C.
 
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