Trouble with dust cover on 720 controller

Wiz

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Hello. I just rebuilt my 720 controller with one of the deluxe rebuild kits that Dave (Ram Controls) sells. I have put it all back together and it spins amazingly, but when I mounted the joystick back to control panel and tested it out, it gets hung up when spinning. This was actually the problem before I rebuilt it and it was due to the old dust cover getting into the housing and spinning unusually over time till it was more of an oval shape. There were shavings in the controller from where it had slowly worn away. This new dust cover appears to be doing the same thing. Does anybody have any solutions for this problem? I thought about taking it out all together or perhaps mounting it on the outside of the panel, but that does not seem like a good solution. Please let me know if you have run into this problem and how you solved it. Thanks!
 
Update: I used the same Nylogel that came with the kit and just put a decent size bead around the inside of the joystick housing where the dust cover makes contact. It is a little heavier spin than without dust cover, but it doesn't hang up when ripping backside 7s. Best this game has ever felt- so I am stoked!

Sorry, I guess this should be in the general repair section, hopefully it will get moved.
 
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Wiz,

I also bought the dlx kit from Dave, but haven't gotten to using it.

Did you find that any other parts, not included in the kit, looked worn enough to purchase?

thanks..
 
Hey Joey,

I did not find that I needed any other parts. In fact, I found that my original parts were actually not very worn and if I had just greased the dust cover that was in my controller, that would have probably made it work fine. You may find that the joystick housing itself is worn if your assembly is in bad shape. My housing pieces were in good shape, so I did not nee them. I ended up replacing all the parts that came with the rebuild kit. It is a very complex joystick- the most I have messed with, but as long as you give yourself some time and you have the rebuild guide in front of you from Ataricade, you will be fine. If you go on CoinOpSpace.com and look for the 720 group, you will find a lot of great resources in there for rebuilding the joystick. It has play by play instructions that I found very helpful. I would not have been able to put it back together as well without the guide. If you run into any problems, let me know and I will be happy to let you know what I did. It turned out really well, and I am really stoked that I did it. I love that game, and it will get a lot more play now that I know I can be rough on it and still know how to fix anything that may go wrong. Good luck with it!

Wiz
 
Awesome info. Thanks.. I have wondered if my housing might be worn. I'll definitely look for that.

The housing should not be worn, but hard to say what the condition of your joystick is. Most likely it is the pivot ball and lower ball that are worn out. Greasing the parts is critical, and that step by step guide is great. Big up to Ataricade and Jeff the 720 guru for providing us some of the tools to keep us shredding.
 
Your 720 looks to be in good shape, with the exception of the front piece. But that is the type of damage that probably helped you get it for a good deal and should be fairly easy to fix. And the good news is that you can easily get to the joystick! If the overall game is in that good of shape, my guess is your rebuild will go smoothly and the joystick housing should be fine. I think the darn dust cover is probably causing a lot of people problems. My rebuilt one felt just like the old one before I greased the dust cover. I was going to take it off all together, but didn't want the hole exposed for dust and such to get into. But without the dust cover it spins butter. Once I greased the cover the spinning was a little heavier- meaning you need to push it a little harder to spin, but it still spins very smoothly and reliably now. Give yourself a couple of hours for the rebuild. Once I took mine apart I lubricated most of the parts a few times while I was cleaning all of the housing pieces. Once you get all that stuff clean and greased it will go back together pretty quickly.
 
I tried the greasing of the dustcover and found that it just made a mess and actually slowed it down. What I found was my real problem is that the old roller inside had made grooves on the sides. Over time, the old roller rounded a little and it didn't dig in anymore However, the new one had sharp edges and started digging back in. I ended up just rounding the roller's sharp edge and that solved the problem. Now mine will spin around at least 3-4 times before it stops.
 
I will take a look at that. Are you saying that you can kind of fling your controller and it will spin 3 or 4 times by itself? If so, that sounds amazing. Mine definitely does not do that, but it spins cleanly. I am with you on the messiness of the grease, I really did not want to do it, but it seemed to solve the grinding feeling.
 
I know the exact grinding you're talking about and I thought it was the same thing with the dust disc. I thought it was the joystick being tightened too much to the control panel at first, but then realized that wasn't the fact. Then I thought I had to lube the disc as well, but that didn't speed it up...it made it smooth, but didn't speed it up at all. Your stick should move like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7iikKiBKRU
(link courtesy of Francis Mariani's ataricade.com site http://www.ataricade.com/720rotary.htm )

Mine moves this smoothly, if not better. It was a combination of slightly beveling that roller, getting the tension on the chain just right, lubing in the right places, and making sure nothing was bent. I actually had 2 original controllers I was working with, in addition to Ram Control's repro parts. You should check that it spins extremely easily and fast without having the chain connected or dust disc in place. If it doesn't spin that easily, then there's something wrong there. Either the wrong lube or something is catching. I actually used a combination of the Nyogel and 3 in 1 oil to get the consistency I wanted. I also noted that between my two joysticks, there was a difference in how the nylon washers and rings were used in their construction. I think I actually removed one of them to get it to spin better because there was less friction. I don't remember exactly what I did, but I do remember that it as a combination of how the 2 originals were constructed.
 
I am definitely going to have to revisit the joystick. I have seen that youtube vid before, but it has been a long time. Mine is not moving like that and I am with you- it needs to! I will try taking a look at the roller to see if that is causing it. I really want to step up my game, so I want it to be perfect. Thanks for the tips.
 
Hey folks.

I'm a bit late to the party on this thread but, Derek/Jedi hit the nail on the head. I've had a joystick where the dust cover seemed to be pushing against its groove way to hard, and kept getting hung up.

The problem (in fact almost all problems with the joystick) stems from wear of the upper housing. Specifically, the point where the the roller (rolling piece on the shaft which contacts the inside of the upper housing) contacts the housing. If not properly lubricated, this will wear a groove into the inside of the upper housing. This causes the circle that the joystick is moving in to be slightly larger...meaning more wear is put on other items are dependant on the size of the spinning circle...the dust cover is one. An oval dust cover indicates a worn upper housing.

This was a big problem in early 720s because the roller was a small nylon piece held in with two metal retaining rings. When the nylon was worn, the metal ring on top would begin to wear a groove into the upper housing:

Later versions of the stick didn't use the metal rings, and instead used a much longer, nylon roller, that was simply held in place by its size.

Old version, with small roller and metal retaining rings...and worn uppper housing:
Joystick_v1.JPG


New version, with no metal rings and a bigger roller:
Joystick_v2.JPG


Lots of pictures on the joystick help page here: http://www.720zone.com/720-Joystick-Help.html
 
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