Tron sounds are slightly off, any ideas?

keithsarcade

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I have a working Tron PCB with a couple minor sound issues. In particular, in the MCP game, the sound effects it makes when hitting MCP blocks is a higher pitch than normal. Also in the tanks game, the background noise that the tanks make is quieter than normal and distorted, and occasionally "pops". All other sounds in the game seem normal except the tones when you earn an extra life seem slower, or more "spread out" than normal.

Any ideas what might be causing this?
 
are you getting a good 12v from the power supply? and is there any connection issues with the wires going to the amp board?
 
FWIW, I didnt notice any of these sound issues when I had this board in my cab.

Theres no telling what could have happened in shipping though.

Matt
 
While I'm not sure about the other sounds... Your MCP block sounds are correct.

You have a different version of the chips on your board that most people do. Check it out in MAME.

Most people have the June 25th version of the ROMs. Your's are from an earlier version.

Try all 3 versions that are in MAME and you'll see what I'm talking about. The only thing that stuck out to me were the block sounds, but the rest of the sounds could be because it's the earlier version as well... I just didn't pay that much attention when I was comparing them back in the day.

As for the popping sounds... check the connection at the speaker. Depending on what you mean by "pop". The tank stage rattles my marquee, so could be rattling a loose connection at the speakers as well.

EDIT: Unless you don't have the earlier ROM versions... in which case I have no idea. The chips would have 6/15 printed/written on them.
 
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Also, go into test mode, then Channel Test. Do all of the tones sound "Clean"? If not, then one of the op amp chips is probably bad.
 
Heres a video, all the sounds in test mode are at the beginning and the MCP game is towards the end. Every chip has been reseated at this point with little to no difference



are you getting a good 12v from the power supply? and is there any connection issues with the wires going to the amp board?

I'm getting readings of 5.24v and 12.28v. Dont see any connection problems.

FWIW, I didnt notice any of these sound issues when I had this board in my cab.

Theres no telling what could have happened in shipping though.

Matt

Funny you mentioned that. When it first arrived I was getting no sound at all and a "sound board interface error" message. I found out though it was simply the chip at A7 had "shifted", and a reseat fixed that. You did a very good job packing this BTW. I wonder if maybe that chip is damaged? Box looks like its in good shape though, didnt take a beating in shipping.

While I'm not sure about the other sounds... Your MCP block sounds are correct.

You have a different version of the chips on your board that most people do. Check it out in MAME.

Most people have the June 25th version of the ROMs. Your's are from an earlier version.

Try all 3 versions that are in MAME and you'll see what I'm talking about. The only thing that stuck out to me were the block sounds, but the rest of the sounds could be because it's the earlier version as well... I just didn't pay that much attention when I was comparing them back in the day.

As for the popping sounds... check the connection at the speaker. Depending on what you mean by "pop". The tank stage rattles my marquee, so could be rattling a loose connection at the speakers as well.

EDIT: Unless you don't have the earlier ROM versions... in which case I have no idea. The chips would have 6/15 printed/written on them.

Also, go into test mode, then Channel Test. Do all of the tones sound "Clean"? If not, then one of the op amp chips is probably bad.

Some roms are dated Jun. 25, others just arent dated. If the sound difference is "normal" and only caused by a different revision I'm fine with that, as long as I can confirm it somehow. I have "Set 1" and "Set 2" in MAME and they both sound the same. It dosent sound "bad", just different, so I'm concerned at this point. Never heard this before.
 
Okay, found them. They're called "Tron Set 4"... I'd link them, but I can't link here. They're out there.

If you google that, it should be your first result.
 
Found it, downloaded it, but MAME dosent recognize it. Have you tried it recently? If it sounds exactly like mine, your word is good enough for me. Like I said, if the difference is normal, it doesnt really bother me. Just want to make sure it wont be a problem in the near future, as this game is going on location for a month or so.
 
Found it, downloaded it, but MAME dosent recognize it. Have you tried it recently? If it sounds exactly like mine, your word is good enough for me. Like I said, if the difference is normal, it doesnt really bother me. Just want to make sure it wont be a problem in the near future, as this game is going on location for a month or so.

Yeah, I tried it recently (about 10 mins ago)... just downloaded all 4 sets from there.

It has some requirements to run in MAME... just download all 4 sets... easier that way. lol I think it requires you to have the first set in your ROMS folder... just grab all 4 of them and check it out.

That's what it sounds like to ME... it's your machine, so you'll have a better point of view on it.

FWIW, those sounds are GOD AWFUL, they WILL drive you insane at the higher/fast levels. Sadly, that's not the only difference. The game is different... I can't remember if it was harder, or easier... ... I want to say easier... Level 2 was 2 light cycles and 2 tanks, then level 3 on plays about the same. (that's at default difficulty, 5).

Edit: I about forgot... if you want to change it back, just replace the EPROMs on the CPU board at D2-D7 and the 3 EPROMs on the SSIO at A7-A9 with the 6.25 version... that should get you back to "normal" sounds.
 
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Does the tone change from channel 3 to 4 sound right to the others in this thread? I dont have a working Tron in front of me so I cant be sure. It sound "off" to me.

EDIT: Never mind. Tried it in MAME and it sounds right.
 
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Yeah, I tried it recently (about 10 mins ago)... just downloaded all 4 sets from there.

It has some requirements to run in MAME... just download all 4 sets... easier that way. lol I think it requires you to have the first set in your ROMS folder... just grab all 4 of them and check it out.

That's what it sounds like to ME... it's your machine, so you'll have a better point of view on it.

FWIW, those sounds are GOD AWFUL, they WILL drive you insane at the higher/fast levels. Sadly, that's not the only difference. The game is different... I can't remember if it was harder, or easier... ... I want to say easier... Level 2 was 2 light cycles and 2 tanks, then level 3 on plays about the same. (that's at default difficulty, 5).

Edit: I about forgot... if you want to change it back, just replace the EPROMs on the CPU board at D2-D7 and the 3 EPROMs on the SSIO at A7-A9 with the 6.25 version... that should get you back to "normal" sounds.

I agree that the cone sounds like the 6.15 version of Tron. I tried it in MAME and it sounds exactly like your video.

I can burn another set of ROMs for the sound board and send them to you if you want. I'll just give you the 6.25 ROMs that are on the board I have so your board will still have factory parts.

I actually kinda like the 6.15 sounds! Go figure.

Matt
 
I agree that the cone sounds like the 6.15 version of Tron. I tried it in MAME and it sounds exactly like your video.

I can burn another set of ROMs for the sound board and send them to you if you want. I'll just give you the 6.25 ROMs that are on the board I have so your board will still have factory parts.

I actually kinda like the 6.15 sounds! Go figure.

Matt

You'll have to do the D2-D7 ROMs on the CPU board as well or you'll get ROM errors... IIRC.
 
You'll have to do the D2-D7 ROMs on the CPU board as well or you'll get ROM errors... IIRC.

I have a funny feeling that the CPU board ALREADY has 6.25 on it because I burned the Free Play ROM that was on that board and I used the 6.25 file. I wonder if the other "odd" sounds are a result of all 6.15 ROMs or maybe just one or two 6.15 ROMs on the sound board?

I never put much thought into the different versions of Tron. I think I've always seen 6.25 on the boards I've come across.

Thanks for the input on this thread Scucci.

Matt
 
I have a funny feeling that the CPU board ALREADY has 6.25 on it because I burned the Free Play ROM that was on that board and I used the 6.25 file. I wonder if the other "odd" sounds are a result of all 6.15 ROMs or maybe just one or two 6.15 ROMs on the sound board?

I never put much thought into the different versions of Tron. I think I've always seen 6.25 on the boards I've come across.

Thanks for the input on this thread Scucci.

Matt

The only reason I know about it was because when I was converting my Tron back from TwoTigers I had to burn my own EPROMs. I tried out all the different versions of the dumps and found out that the 6.25 were the most common ones, so I went with those.
 
OK, so the MCP sounds are normal then, good. Should I still be concerned with the quiet and somewhat distorted BGM in tanks, as well as the popping noise it makes after a shot fire?
 
OK, so the MCP sounds are normal then, good. Should I still be concerned with the quiet and somewhat distorted BGM in tanks, as well as the popping noise it makes after a shot fire?

I probably would be. Those aren't common. Could bad connection or faulty sockets on the EPROMs, or just bad EPROMs (that the checksums aren't catching?).
 
FWIW, those sounds are GOD AWFUL, they WILL drive you insane at the higher/fast levels. Sadly, that's not the only difference. The game is different... I can't remember if it was harder, or easier... ... I want to say easier... Level 2 was 2 light cycles and 2 tanks, then level 3 on plays about the same

I don't know if it's really harder or easier...it's harder if you only know the normal patterns, cause the cycles are all different on set 4 (6/15) ;) I can tell you it's not the gameplay of set 4 though, as that's the only one that has 1000 on the timer on the 1st level grid bugs. All the other revisions start with 500. 1984 in Springfield MO has a machine with the set 4 ROMset. The story they told me was the early set was used in a tournament before the game officially came out, and all the machines were supposed to be recalled after the tournament. For some reason, the one he got wasn't, and he's had it since 1984. I know in all my years of playing Tron, I don't think I ever saw that particular version. (except for 1984's) Cause my patterns wouldn't have worked. As it was, it took me several tries just to get to 100K.
 
I recall a machine in near San Francisco that must have had those ROMs. The first level Grid bugs always started with 1000 like you mentioned. My friends and I managed to clear the first level of grid bug a few times on that machine.
 
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