Tron Channel 4, 5, and 6 Sound Errors

[cwstrong]

I've determined my upright Tron is not playing sound through channels 4, 5 or 6 when in test mode. I only get a crack or pop when these sounds try to initiate during testing and game play.

Where do I begin to look to solve this problem? Which logic board, pins, etc.?

Thanks in advance to anyone that can help!

 

[parabolic]

I had this similar problem with my Journey (same hardware). The roms were ok, it was a couple ic logic chips. I cant remember off hand, but do a search for my usernames posts back about - oh - October I think. I believe I posted about it then. In the mean time Ill see what I can find. I do know I ended up replacing multiple ic chips to rectify the problem.

 

[cwstrong]

Thanks, parabolic. I'm pretty new to the internals of these machines, so I'll need a little help as to where to look on the boards for the AV chips, etc.

Do you have a Sega Star Wars Trilogy? Are you still using the original power supply or a replacement? Mine appears to be dying and I'm looking for a replacement or a how-to on swapping out the old PS with a new one, but that's another thread altogether.

 

[demogo]

Doesn't Tron also use the same dual channel amp that spy hunter uses? If so it could be that as well.

I just ran into a bad dual channel amp board for my SH that exhibited this same problem -- no sounds on about half the items from the sound diags menu. I'm almost sure that means that one channel wasn't working on the amp board because when I swapped in my original working board it was fine again.

 

[cdjump]

find the 2 ay8910's (f6 and f7) on the super sound i/o board. (top board, smallest of the 3) and swap them. If the missing sounds return, and the existing sounds are now missing, you have a bad ay8910. Purchase a spare and remove one at a time until you figure out which one is bad.

edit- i'm not 100% sure if your board uses the same hardware as Spy Hunter or not - the above locations are referenced from a SH boardset. But, if you have 2 ay8910's, swap them and see if that doesn't fix the problem.
I'm fairly sure the hardware is similar, but i'm not sure its identical.

 

[cwstrong]

Thanks, cdjump! I came to the same conclusion this weekend that it may be a sound generator chip or AY38910. I'll do the swap tonight and see if it's a bad chip like you said.

 

[cwstrong]

Well, no dice! I did the swap of the 8910's and no change. In test mode Channel 1, 2, and 3 tones are heard, while no sound is still present in Channel 4, 5, or 6.

Any ideas...anyone? Sound amp, IC logic chips.......<sigh>

 

[ELutz]

Well, it starts to get a little tougher now. I would ...first check if the problem is before the 8910...or after. I'd bet after, but that's still where I'd start. You know one is working...so, I'd compare signals between the two. If it's before...you're on the data bus...that could be a lot of things. If it's after, you've got two identical circuits...once again, I'd start comparing signals. I know I've replaced a few of the 4066 (or 4016, depending on which is used), a MC3403...but it could be anything....maybe one of the LS191's. Time to pull out the logic probe (or scope).

Edward

 

[demogo]

Well, no dice! I did the swap of the 8910's and no change. In test mode Channel 1, 2, and 3 tones are heard, while no sound is still present in Channel 4, 5, or 6.

Any ideas...anyone? Sound amp, IC logic chips.......<sigh>

I'll bet $10 it's the sound amp. As I mentioned earlier, I recently bought a backup sound amp and it exhibits exactly the same problem that you are reporting but when I put my primary one back in all is well.

I don't know what the issue IS on the sound amp but it's clearly the culprit in my case and very likely in yours too.

 

[cwstrong]

Well, just when I thought my sound problems were trouble enough...tonight I get a flickering white screen with artifacts. The yellow LED light on the SSIO flashes once then a few seconds later I get 2 quick flashes and then it repeats. Bad RAM, ROMs or something else?

The 'white-out' occurred upon the beginning of game play. Any ideas?

Thanks again for any help.

 

[MajorHavoc]

Well, just when I thought my sound problems were trouble enough...tonight I get a flickering white screen with artifacts. The yellow LED light on the SSIO flashes once then a few seconds later I get 2 quick flashes and then it repeats. Bad RAM, ROMs or something else?

The 'white-out' occurred upon the beginning of game play. Any ideas?

Have you verified your voltages (+5, +12, etc.) ON THE PCBs? This sounds like it could be symptoms of low voltage.

 

[cwstrong]

Re: Tron Channel 4, 5, and 6 Sound Errors - Fixed!

I hate unresolved posts (especially mine), so I'll wrap this one up with some solutions as well as a kick in the ass!

Sound (Channel 4,5,6) Problem >>>
The sound issue was corrected by fixing a loose connection on the corresponding speaker.

The white artifacts and scrambled screen were a result of the linear power supply. I attempted to repair the original linear unit, but resorted to buying a switcher and adapter (I kept the broken linear supply just for those who are curious). 15 minutes later...problem resolved...Sark, come get some!

 

[TimothyC]

Re: Tron Channel 4, 5, and 6 Sound Errors - Fixed!

Thanks for updating your post cw. It would be nice if everyone did so...

The white artifacts and scrambled screen were a result of the linear power supply. I attempted to repair the original linear unit, but resorted to buying a switcher and adapter

I've read a number of post where people had issues after installing a switching power supply and went back to a linear so that's interesting. Good to hear Tron is up and running though

.

 

[cwstrong]

Re: Tron Channel 4, 5, and 6 Sound Errors - Fixed!

I've read a number of post where people had issues after installing a switching power supply and went back to a linear so that's interesting. Good to hear Tron is up and running though

.

I haven't experienced a single issue since the install of the switcher (humming, etc.). I replaced the linear in my Discs of Tron at the same time and again, no complaints.

 

[vintagegamer]

I'm chasing this exact same issue with my TRON, now (channels 4 5 6 not making any sound). The 2 speakers in the top are fine. No sound is coming from the white wire with the black stripe (the white wire with the red stripe is sending sound to the speakers successfully).

I will be pulling my "rebuilt and tested" sound amp board to look for cold solder joints next. The 2 sound chips on the SS/IO board are fine according to cdjump (he reworked the stack within the past month), so it's gotta be something really stupid.

Man I hate chasing these kinds of oddball issues!!!

 

[vintagegamer]

Here are my additional troubleshooting updates that have not fixed the issue:

1. I shaved some wire casing off of the wire that is not producing any sound (white wire with black stripe), and bypassed the connector with alligator clips to the actual speaker. No change.
2. The boardset had supposedly passed with flying colors when rebuilt, but in the event that something got knocked loose while shipping, I rotated the 2 AY-3 chips in their sockets (aka flipped one from position a to position b, and vice versa. No change.
3. I pulled the amp board and reflowed the solder on the 2 pins that exit the amp and go to the speaker. No change.

I did not want to start reflowing everything on the amp board, as everything works but these 3 f*ing channels. If anyone has any other suggestions please let me know. The connectors that connect to the SS/IO board all look fine, and every other f*ing function works but these last sounds. I also know that if I just start cutting and repinning stuff, I'm going to most likely make it worse.

If anyone can provide any additional test scenarios that I have not thought of, I'd really appreciate it. This thing is 95% back from the dead within only a month, and I just want it done!!

 

[mecha]

the fact you're getting pops in the sound test tells me the Dual Amp isn't at fault. you have something wrong in the SSIO somewhere. I had a Spy Hunter a couple months ago that would just constantly play the attract music whenever it wanted to off the Cheap Squeak board, but upon fixing that it wound up destroying all the in-game sound from the SSIO. it was loud screeches. the attract music issue was caused by the ribbon cables to the SSIO, one of the pins was bent out. the screeching thing I wound up popping all the chips out of the SSIO and plugging them back in and it magically worked finally.

I'm not cdjump, kids. I'll handle your Stargate and Robotron needs, but not those. if you had already sent these to cdjump then I'm sorry. this might be above your pay grade and need his magic touch again.

 

[vintagegamer]

Thanks for the input- my issue is slightly different from the OP. I don't get sound pops for channels 4 5 6. I get nothing for the sounds associated with those channels.

 

[mecha]

Thanks for the input- my issue is slightly different from the OP. I don't get sound pops for channels 4 5 6. I get nothing for the sounds associated with those channels.

oh right, yet another ancient bumped thread.

if you're not hearing pops then it might be the Dual Amp? I don't know if those separate the 1-3 and 4-6 sounds per amp. honestly a cdjump question.

 

[vintagegamer]

He thinks it's a connection issue somewhere. Gonna do some more solder reflowing tonight.

Damn games, what good is only getting 40 years out of them? Sheesh.