Top 10 machines - I'm really amazed how un-fun they are

Deadly

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Top 10 machines - I'm really amazed how un-fun they are

I FINALLY (after 8 years of living in Portland) made it down to Ground Kontrol last night. What a sweet place that is. I've been looking to add another pin to my collection so I thought it'd be nice to "play before you pay" ;)

Of the top 10 they didn't have MM, TZ or IJ.

First of all almost every pin there is running a major steep pitch and they went with smaller balls on all but a couple machines. I didn't care for that but it makes sense. People are playing more than drinking and they need to make money and what a better way than to make it harder to hit the ball.

I gotta be honest with you guys and gals, almost all top 10 games my wife and I found to be .... well ........ pretty lame. I couldn't imagine kicking out $3500 - $5K when a lot of "B" and "C" titles are just as good if not better. In my personal opinion the only pins I enjoyed were STTNG, LOTR and TAF. AFM is a prime example of software that helps offset how otherwise boring it is. Circus Volaire is certainly different than the others which is cool - but not cool enough for the price tag it carries. Theatre of Magic is yet another game that I feel is over rated for the price tag. I feel good now knowing that a Funhouse is just as fun as most of the other "A" list machines.

I highly suggest anyone local that is considering adding a machine to their gameroom go down to GK and play the pins. You'll no longer have the "what if" thing going on. You'll be certain wether a machine is to your liking and it'll only cost you a few quarters instead of thousands.

Current line up is:
TAF - TS - CV - WH2O - FH - TOM - DM - SG - RCT - AFM - SM - BMF - SP - POTC - STTNG - LOTR - TOTAN - FT - RFM - DW - TSPP - RS - BOPB - T2 - and a couple more I'm forgetting.
 
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What are the top 10 games?

I've found the same with a lot of high dollar games. Most of them are high dollar because 1) they are usually pretty fun 2) They have a certain theme that is well loved and not a completely worthless license today and 3) They have some other "collectible" factor that drives the price up. None of these things mean they are definitely better players than the typical B or C title game. Many of my favorites are B or C titles...

IF you're a person who can enjoy some other themes and doesn't have to own the most wanted games, you can find a lot of really fun pins for $1000-2000 and never get near the "A list" titles.

Wade
 
What are the top 10 games?
IF you're a person who can enjoy some other themes and doesn't have to own the most wanted games, you can find a lot of really fun pins for $1000-2000 and never get near the "A list" titles.

Wade
TOp 10 is referring to IPDB
I'm really a simple guy - I'm not the type to run out and see a movie the very first night it's played so with that being said, me needing to have all "A" list games ... nahhhh. I agree there's much better games out there in $1K - $2K area. And as far as artwork goes .... if a game is fun doesn't matter what it looks like. I know I'd never purchase one just because it's "pretty" to look at.
 
Here are my personal top ten, in no order.

- Simpsons Pinball Party
- Twilight Zone
- Lord of the Rings
- Attack From Mars
- The Addams Family
- The Machine: Bride of Pinbot
- Spider-Man (Stern)
- Funhouse
- White Water
- World Cup Soccer '94

My honorable mentions include:

- Indiana Jones (WMS)
- Medieval Madness
- Jurassic Park
- Guns N' Roses
- The Simpsons (DE)
- Tales of the Arabian Nights

The reason I leave Medieval Madness out of the top 10 and include Attack From Mars is due to the awesome simplicity of AFM. It's nothing but pure shooting, with amazing software to go with it. Accuracy and the ability to chain combos together really awards you big time, and MM has the same concept down, but too much going that kills the ultra fast flow and play. My all-time favorite is Twilight Zone, because it's a great mix of flow and stop and go. There are some great combos (left ramp, right rimp, piano for example), and then there's plenty of stop, aim, and shoot for the next toy. I've had a TZ for a very long time, and I never even feel the least bit tired of it.
 
It's really great to discuss pins here because people here tend to be less standish-offish.
I have to say Jar you have a really wide variety of taste and that's great as it offers everyone some insight. I think hearing TZ has satying power and the reasons for it speaks a lot. Honestly I was dealing on a Whitewater to be locked in this week. I actually took my wife to give her an unknowing sneak peak at our soon to be new pin. Sadly she didn;t like it and to be honest I didn;t care for it either and I cancelled my order. I'm done reading about machines and how great they are. Both my wife and I aren;t die hard pin heads and we like to read and see what others enjoy. We learned a valuable lesson. PLAY BEFORE YOU BUY NO EXCEPTIONS. I suppose being newbs in the pin realm makes it easier for us to not care for any type/style of machine. Both of us don;t care for straight shot games like AFM or Dr Who or BOPB.
TSPP was amusing but I couldn't take hearing D'OH over and over. Spiderman is pretty cool but way out of price range right now. My wife also really likes LOTR but yet another out of the price we want. We both agreed on Addams Family to be out next pin as it is both fun and affordable.
 
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I guess it's definitely a "to each their own" kind of thing.

I don't like Cirqus Voltaire either. I've tried, tried and tried to like that game but it just does nothing for me. Doesn't suck me in.

I really like Theater of Magic, but I don't like the grind in maxing out bonus on it. Still extremely playable, can be played different ways, etc.

Played World Cup Soccer for the first time a couple weeks ago and instantly saw why that game is so popular. Just fun to play.

Also don't care for Elvira. Love the humor and theme, but play is always a chore.
 
Put me in the "don't care for Cirqus Voltaire" camp. I recently got to play one that was collector quality (best one I've ever seen) and I just still couldn't get too hyped up about it. I've tried to click with the game for years, I just don't care for the gameplay. It is really pretty, however.
 
Put me in the "don't care for Cirqus Voltaire" camp. I recently got to play one that was collector quality (best one I've ever seen) and I just still couldn't get too hyped up about it. I've tried to click with the game for years, I just don't care for the gameplay. It is really pretty, however.

+2 me and the wifey checked it out at the ohio pinball expo.
we did like hurricaine, grand lizard, and many others
 
Go to the "Dodge City" pinball arcade in Long Beach, Washington. There's plenty of the machines you want to play there.
 
You will have to come out to my place sometime soon Deadly and re-play some of those titles. CV is one of my all time favorites because of the constant action on the board. Its a deceptive game, that is difficult to master, and house ball happy at times. However, the home ROM for this game made some pretty awesome additions, that have made this my longest owned pinball (11 years now!). See sig for other titles.
 
I think it sometimes can be tough to give an opinion on a pinball that you don't own. I think some people play a game that is unshopped, and perhaps not working all the way, and place their opinion based on that example of the machine. Nothing beats having the machine fully shopped, and fully working, to base your opinion off of.
-Mark
 
I really love pinball and have owned a bunch, now down to 2 at home and a bunch that my brother kept. The one problem I have with the new SS games is I have no clue what the hell I am trying to do. I am more of a EM guy, just plain simple skilled shots, not saying there aren't any in SS games just totally different type of play. I think I just get to overwhelmed with all the stuff and levels on the playfield. I just need to get out there and play some of the newer stuff. I was just chiming in to mention the love for EM's they look boring but once you really get into you will find the love.

Toby
 
It's really great to discuss pins here because people here tend to be less standish-offish.
I have to say Jar you have a really wide variety of taste and that's great as it offers everyone some insight. I think hearing TZ has satying power and the reasons for it speaks a lot. Honestly I was dealing on a Whitewater to be locked in this week. I actually took my wife to give her an unknowing sneak peak at our soon to be new pin. Sadly she didn;t like it and to be honest I didn;t care for it either and I cancelled my order. I'm done reading about machines and how great they are. Both my wife and I aren;t die hard pin heads and we like to read and see what others enjoy. We learned a valuable lesson. PLAY BEFORE YOU BUY NO EXCEPTIONS. I suppose being newbs in the pin realm makes it easier for us to not care for any type/style of machine. Both of us don;t care for straight shot games like AFM or Dr Who or BOPB.
TSPP was amusing but I couldn't take hearing D'OH over and over. Spiderman is pretty cool but way out of price range right now. My wife also really likes LOTR but yet another out of the price we want. We both agreed on Addams Family to be out next pin as it is both fun and affordable.

The problem with pinballs is that you need to spend a good deal amount of time playing them to appreciate them (Speaking DMDs for the most part). By a great amount of time, I mean 8-12 hours just starting to understand what the game is about. I don't usually have a feel for how a game really is until about two months of play or so. I have had TSPP for 3 years and still havent seen everything it has to offer....

In no particular order, games I absolutely love and would have (or have) in my collection if I had room for 15 pins- (I have room for 8)

Jurassic Park
Whitewater
Simpsons Pinball Party
DE Simpsons
Cirqus Voltaire
Fish Tales
Wheel of Fortune
Lord of the Rings
Pinbot
Batman Forever
Revenge From Mars / SWE1
Class of 1812
Creature From the Black Lagoon
Indiana Jones (williams)
Pirates of the Carribean
 
You will have to come out to my place sometime soon Deadly and re-play some of those titles. CV is one of my all time favorites because of the constant action on the board. Its a deceptive game, that is difficult to master, and house ball happy at times. However, the home ROM for this game made some pretty awesome additions, that have made this my longest owned pinball (11 years now!). See sig for other titles.

Agreed.... CV is brilliant.... Mine just went out the door after a good run in my collection (5+) years....

Stacking multiballs, Neon multiball (from the sideshow), Ringmaster battle, getting through the Circus (after joining), great flow, incredible sound and art.... The game really has it all.

I keep cost out of the equation when I look at games, as this skews my perceived fun of the game. The beauty of pinball is that (for the most part), you are basically playing these games for free if you buy and sell correctly and have patience and some skills.

It took me 10 years, but I currently have a collection of 8 games that have paid for themselves by actively buying, selling, fixing, etc... with patience and perserverence...Can't think of too many hobbies that can offer that...
 
First of all let me say I'm not one of those idiots that complains about a game because I want one and it costs too much. Price VS fun isn't even an issue with me. If I like a game I don;t give damn how much it is I'll buy one. I may have to save my pennies up but I'll get one eventually. It's not what this thread was supposed to be about.

I don't disagree with needing to put time in on a game however I feel it was worth the 3 hours I spent dropping money. These machines are all well maintained so it's not like I was playing a hoop-tee machine.
Smaller balls and a grotesque pitch didn't help matters either I suppose.
To each their own.

There are games I much more enjoyed that are much less money. That's kind of the point. Top 10 machines and the price tags they carry with them (except white water which can be had cheap enough) to me this rating system drives the value of the games which is unfortunate. Take into consideration a machine with high production numbers - of course this gves a machine a better chance of being played/rated. Now on the flip side of the coin take a game that had low production numbers and is some what rare - yep that thing will get high ratings as well.
There's no one size fits all here however IPDB's ratings mean nothing to me and shouldn;t to anyone else but the fact is it does. Simply spend time on a game before you buy it. I'm no pinball wizard but I can determine if I'm remotely interested in a game using $5.00. And when you go to another machine and you feel the prior one was better/worse than what you just played also is a great indicator. You also learn wether you prefer a cluttered playfield or an open playfield which is yet another factor to help you choose a game.

Sorry gents but CV's software is awesome, the cabs beautiful but the game play really doesn't float my boat.
 
First of all let me say I'm not one of those idiots that complains about a game because I want one and it costs too much. Price VS fun isn't even an issue with me. If I like a game I don;t give damn how much it is I'll buy one. I may have to save my pennies up but I'll get one eventually. It's not what this thread was supposed to be about.

I don't disagree with needing to put time in on a game however I feel it was worth the 3 hours I spent dropping money. These machines are all well maintained so it's not like I was playing a hoop-tee machine.
Smaller balls and a grotesque pitch didn't help matters either I suppose.
To each their own.

There are games I much more enjoyed that are much less money. That's kind of the point. Top 10 machines and the price tags they carry with them (except white water which can be had cheap enough) to me this rating system drives the value of the games which is unfortunate. Take into consideration a machine with high production numbers - of course this gves a machine a better chance of being played/rated. Now on the flip side of the coin take a game that had low production numbers and is some what rare - yep that thing will get high ratings as well.
There's no one size fits all here however IPDB's ratings mean nothing to me and shouldn;t to anyone else but the fact is it does. Simply spend time on a game before you buy it. I'm no pinball wizard but I can determine if I'm remotely interested in a game using $5.00. And when you go to another machine and you feel the prior one was better/worse than what you just played also is a great indicator. You also learn wether you prefer a cluttered playfield or an open playfield which is yet another factor to help you choose a game.

Sorry gents but CV's software is awesome, the cabs beautiful but the game play really doesn't float my boat.

I think there is something else that is driving the cost of these top 10 games up more than a list and that is the availability of the parts for these games. More parts available, more cost for nice examples as people are buying routed machines and making them nice again ($$$$)

Take a look at the top 10 list and think about the parts available for the game, with the exception of maybe two titles, parts are readily avilable to turn these games back into showroom beauties.

I gaurantee you that you would see price driven up on these titles as parts became available- Two perfect examples- Funhouse and Whitewater- Considered "B" titles by many, their prices continue to climb for nice examples because of all the money being tied back into them.

It isn't that hard to find these titles for less than high dollars (exception being MM and CV) with a little work....

In the last two years I have bought or turned down the following routed examples (fully functional, less than showroom quality)

1)TZ- 2100
2)Totan- 2200
3)TAF- 1900
4)IJ- 2100
5)STTNG- 1600
6)LOTR-2600
7)AFM-2600
8)WH2O- 1400

CV was a closeout special, so a lot of people bought these NIB back in the day and they are usually in very good shape, MM still makes money on route and are harder to get as ops still hold them in high regard.

Once more repro parts start becoming available for some of these B and C titles, their price will go up because people can make them nice again. Will they climb to "a" list pricing? Doubtful, but they will certainly climb.

Pinball is funny because it is certainly different strokes for different folks..... there isn't a machine I would not buy to try, but for me to keep them, it definitely has to stand out....

Here would be my games that disappointed me but I bought them because I wanted to try them and couldnt find them locally list (and played them a lot in Visual Pinball to get a feel for them)- (in no particular order):

1) Funhouse
2) The Addams Family
3) Demolition Man
4) Lethal Weapon 3
5) Elvis
 
I really love pinball and have owned a bunch, now down to 2 at home and a bunch that my brother kept. The one problem I have with the new SS games is I have no clue what the hell I am trying to do. I am more of a EM guy, just plain simple skilled shots, not saying there aren't any in SS games just totally different type of play. I think I just get to overwhelmed with all the stuff and levels on the playfield. I just need to get out there and play some of the newer stuff. I was just chiming in to mention the love for EM's they look boring but once you really get into you will find the love.

Toby

A good resource to learn the games is http://pinball.org

They have rule sheets that explain many popular games. Occasionally I'll go so far as to print some out and bring them with me when I play. I try to focus on one section of the rule sheet at a time - trying to take it all in at once is usually too much.

Once I have the various sections of the game understood, then I try to put it all together into an overall game strategy. This obviously takes many plays and is the "fun" part to me.

Questions to ask yourself when you play a new game:

1. How hard is it to get multiball? How risky? How lucrative is it? Ultimately, is going for multiball worth it? Maybe after completing other objectives or boosting your bonus first?

2. Same thing with modes. How hard is activating a mode? Completing the mode? How lucrative? How risky? On most games, there are at least a few modes that aren't worth it and can lead to a quick drain. Learn to spot the sucker modes and let them time out or avoid them altogether.

3. What's the value of the end of ball bonus (big or small)? How do I increase the bonus multiplier? Is it worth it to try and go for a big end-of-ball bonus? If end-of-ball bonus is not significant, then it's more worthwhile to bump/nudge aggressively, since you have little to lose if you tilt.
 
I feel kinda lucky that I fell in love with late 80's Williams games (system 11's) before anything else. They are affordable and were designed at the height of originality in pinball story telling (think High Speed, PinBot). I would rather buy 5 system 11 machines than one CV or MM. Those games are wonderful in their own way, but with the price tags the way they are, the system 11 machines are just too terrific of a compromise.

Brendan
 
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