Too many sellers saying friends and family only
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ElectricDreamz
Well-known member
the overwhelming majority, yes.
bad things happen in life sometimes, but if we're playing averages, my transactions with KLOVers have been more successful/drama free than any other market, venue, vendor, or buyer/seller audience in which i've been engaged.
anyone having reservations about dealing with someone - regardless of payment details - don't deal with them. simple as
bad things happen in life sometimes, but if we're playing averages, my transactions with KLOVers have been more successful/drama free than any other market, venue, vendor, or buyer/seller audience in which i've been engaged.
anyone having reservations about dealing with someone - regardless of payment details - don't deal with them. simple as
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Yep, and do your research.
Look at the feedback forums. Avoid RAM Controls (and the rest of the Judd crap show) avoid scamming Steven out in Oregon.
We have the feedback forums - it's like the BBB for arcade stuff.
MIPS
Well-known member
We can be. Odds are though many of us see eachother as bags of meat and a revenue source.
Look at my feedback rating here. It's only one piece of feedback and it was someone being buttmad I called them out for listing an item and then hiding the price when it sold.
Arguing against the forum rule that's been clearly set in place to deal with repeated scams because you want to duck out on taxes doesn't make anyone look good.
Tom,
What is you position on a CLEARED CHECK? What is your postion on CASH IN HAND?
What's the difference? If someone requires F&F the buyer is putting the trust in the seller.... otherwise the trust lies with the buyer. Personal responsibility be damed.
FWIW, I only require F&F or a check (and it clear) for zero and/or low feedback folks. It's called a guaranteed form of payment and it's not "shady" in the slightest.
What is you position on a CLEARED CHECK? What is your postion on CASH IN HAND?
What's the difference? If someone requires F&F the buyer is putting the trust in the seller.... otherwise the trust lies with the buyer. Personal responsibility be damed.
FWIW, I only require F&F or a check (and it clear) for zero and/or low feedback folks. It's called a guaranteed form of payment and it's not "shady" in the slightest.
THIS EXACTLY!!! while its said as a joke, it's very true. Things are great and smooth.....until they ain't! Then all hell breaks loose and we have more posts and hurt feelings than any please delete thread could ever have!
I have recourse through my bank if I use a check. Also, are you like 80? Who uses checks? If I am paying cash, well, I am usually standing in front of the person with the item so the recourse is me beating their ass if they try to run.
F&F has zero protection for the buyer. I really fail to understand why this simple math cannot be understood and has to be questioned.
HudsonArcade
Well-known member
...then don't buy from people you don't trust.
Why should the buyer be protected and the seller not? Isn't that how ebay turned to complete shit... that mentality? Why can't big boys make their own decisions on these things?
And yes, I still use checks... from time to time.
When I require a guaranteed form of payment, I require a guaranteed form of payment. That doesn't make me a scammer or in any way shady.
And yes, I still use checks... from time to time.
When I require a guaranteed form of payment, I require a guaranteed form of payment. That doesn't make me a scammer or in any way shady.
Jesus Christ Tom... you're making me agree 100% with MARK SPAETH for crying out loud!
I wont and do not. I am just answering Jons questions
Not only that, there is a bigger picture to consider. I like many of you watch various YouTube videos. Some of these content creators have many followers. Some also have legit businesses. I've seen/heard these YouTubers name/suggest/endorse other people's products and services. The extra free advertising ( wanted or not ) is going to bring extra funds, and extra eyes. It grows from just helping the odd one/hobby into something more - or worse, perceived as more.
Again anyone can search this forum. It's not a secret corner of the interwebs.
Jesus Christ Tom... you're making me agree 100% with MARK SPAETH for crying out loud!
This is not about my personal payment preferences but the forum rule. I just enforce the rules here man. I have already stated that personally, I will not buy from someone who forces F&F and refuses to take added fees on top of regular paypal. If I know them, I will F&F. Don't make this about me please. We cannot control how you people ultimately transact. We just do not allow here in the rules.
Jesus...
I understand forum rules... but labeling anyone who required F&F for a transaction as somehow "shady" isn't enforcing forum rules.
I don't "require" F&F in most cases. Some... I do... and but I don't advertise that. It depends on who is buying to be honest. Some newb with zero transactions, who signed up a month ago? He's a prime candidate.
I don't "require" F&F in most cases. Some... I do... and but I don't advertise that. It depends on who is buying to be honest. Some newb with zero transactions, who signed up a month ago? He's a prime candidate.
This is now circular.
Like I wrote above, essentially, do what you want just dont tell the world about it or else we step in if reported. And yes, I think someone forcing F&F and not accepting "I add the fees they lose out on using regular PP" is shady AF.
When you get burned by some asshole because you think requiring newbs who have little to no feedback to pay via a guaranteed form of payment is shady, don't cry out loud, I'll be there to remind you of this...
Signed,
Shady as Fuck
Signed,
Shady as Fuck
Sent PM's to all of the OP's of the reported threads about F&F
JamBurglar
Well-known member
The $600 thing has ALWAYS been misunderstood on here.
If this IRS $600 rule ever takes effect, here's how it would actually work. ... Let's say you buy a game for $500 and sell it for $1000. Paypal will send the 1099K showing that you have $1000.00 in gross revenue (not income, gross revenue). You only have to pay taxes on your income. Therefore, when you file your taxes, you only pay income tax on the $500.00 in income that you made on the sale. A 1099K is not intended to be a statement showing your income, only that you received revenue. It is up to you to explain why that revenue is not 100% income when you file your taxes.
I will ad that we've been hearing horror stories about how this $600 rule is going to ruin us for YEARS now and it has never happened. The other thing you hear is that nobody can remember how much they bought the game for. In that case, then you just give it your best guess. The chances of you getting audited are slim.
Importantly, as long as we've all been alive, the rule is that you must pay taxes on your income (period). And for as long as income tax has existed, people have cheated on their taxes through cash or other "under the table" transactions that never get reported to the IRS. However, the rule has always been that you are supposed to fully report your income and pay taxes on that income, regardless of the source. The 1099-K does not impose any new rules with regard to reporting your income, it just makes it harder for people to hide under-the-table transactions, because anything over $600/$5000 (or whatever the limit is) must be reported to the IRS. The effect of the 1099K is just that it makes it harder to cheat the system.
So, the reason I'm not a fan of the Friends and Family thing is because it requires the purchaser to participate in the seller's attempt to cheat the system. "Friends and Family" is designed so that people can gift money to friends or family. It was never designed to be used for payments for goods or services. So, by asking someone to pay by Friends and Family, you're asking them to help you cheat the system. Not only the Paypal fee structure, but also potentially, cheat on their taxes by preventing the system from reporting the transaction. Personally, I would rather pay the seller's fees and taxes than cheat the system. Also, any time somebody is asking me to to help them cheat the system so that they can save a few bucks, it makes me wonder "is this person going to cheat me as well?" The other thing is that many of the successful scams run in this hobby involve Friends and Family payments. The more we foster that type of transaction the more we open the door to some of these scams.
All this said, I fully agree with those who've said "nobody is forcing anybody to buy from them". 100% true. You don't have to buy from sellers who will only accept friends and family. Sometimes you really need a part and you have to take the risk. But anyway, this whole "I have to use Friends and Family because otherwise the IRS is going ruin my livelihood" is pretty ridiculous, especially since the rule doesn't even exist yet.
Your answer makes sense, but FUCK THE IRS. Once used items get bought and sold, taxes have already been paid. Double/Triple/Quadruple (ad nauseum) taxes is absofuckinglutely ridiculous, and I won't have it.
Nearly 100% of my hobby transactions are now local, most in-cash. But a growing segment of my transactions are barter and trade transactions too. I pay enough taxes as it is.
BladeZX
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I was just told to edit my sale posts or they would deleted
I told them to delete them and I will sell my boards elsewhere
Being in Canada friends and family is just so much easier and I have had PayPal convert the USD to CAD on me with G&S
I have sold enough here to be trusted I think
If a user really had an issue with it I would do G&S but I have had no argument
Oh well… life goes on
I told them to delete them and I will sell my boards elsewhere
Being in Canada friends and family is just so much easier and I have had PayPal convert the USD to CAD on me with G&S
I have sold enough here to be trusted I think
If a user really had an issue with it I would do G&S but I have had no argument
Oh well… life goes on
