OP
OP
Running down to check R82 and R211 now.
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Please post all monitor technical topics in the Technical - Videogames - Monitors section, not in the General Help section.
Time Warp pin - switch troubleshooting help pls
- Thread starter vintagegamer
- Start date
OP
OP
Not sure if I did this one right or not but here goes. And first off, I think we ended up with a typo in there since the resistors are (I think) R82 and R201. Here we are:
1. if I do a continuity check and put the leads on each side of the resistors, I get no 'beep' but do get the following values:
r82=1697
r201=952
If I set the DMM to Ohms, the values for the 2 resistors just read "1". If I screwed up pls let me know.
1. if I do a continuity check and put the leads on each side of the resistors, I get no 'beep' but do get the following values:
r82=1697
r201=952
If I set the DMM to Ohms, the values for the 2 resistors just read "1". If I screwed up pls let me know.
Sorry, you figured it out....R201...not 211.
R201 is 1K....or 1000 ohms....952 is fine.
R82 is 4.7K....or 4700 ohms.....you're way off on that one. It's probably fine and the circuit it's in is throwing the reading off. You can always lift one leg of the resistor out of circuit and see what reading you get.
I have no idea what's up with your meter
.
Edward
R201 is 1K....or 1000 ohms....952 is fine.
R82 is 4.7K....or 4700 ohms.....you're way off on that one. It's probably fine and the circuit it's in is throwing the reading off. You can always lift one leg of the resistor out of circuit and see what reading you get.
I have no idea what's up with your meter
.Edward
OP
OP
Sorry, you figured it out....R201...not 211.
R201 is 1K....or 1000 ohms....952 is fine.
R82 is 4.7K....or 4700 ohms.....you're way off on that one. It's probably fine and the circuit it's in is throwing the reading off. You can always lift one leg of the resistor out of circuit and see what reading you get.
I have no idea what's up with your meter
Edward
I'll look at it again- maybe a low battery in the meter would show this kind of reading?
A low battery can cause all kinds of screwy readings. Does your meter have different settings for ohms......some break it down into several divisions....200/under, 1000, 10000, etc.
Edward
OP
OP
I think it was part low battery, part user error.
Here are the readings:
R201=.99
R82=4.64
Here are the readings:
R201=.99
R82=4.64
I think it was part low battery, part user error.
Here are the readings:
R201=.99
R82=4.64
Those are good. This is about all you can do with a meter. You're going to need a logic probe or a scope to take it to the next level. As I previously mentioned, it's probably IC16 or IC11. How good are you at removing soldered in chips? You could just replace them and see what happens. I'd do IC16 first and retest the board. IC11 is a big chip.....A lot of room for trace damage if your desoldering skills arn't....well....good
.Edward
OP
OP
Many thanks for the help. I'll see what I can do abt getting new chips for it.
OP
OP
Just a little update re: this, I removed IC16 from the board last night. The legs are pretty badly oxidized IMO and giving me trouble getting them out. I hope to have the last of the stuck legs out tonight, and am replacing that chip with a socket and a chip in case this ever needs to be done again.
Stay tuned.
Stay tuned.
OP
OP
IC16 has been replaced with a socket and a new chip, unfortunately no change.
The legs on IC15 were very poorly soldered on, so I put new solder on all of them as well.
Next up is IC11. Stay tuned.
The legs on IC15 were very poorly soldered on, so I put new solder on all of them as well.
Next up is IC11. Stay tuned.
OP
OP
Worked for over 3 hours last night to remove IC11. Got all but 3 legs out (2 at bottom, 1 at top).
I can't seem to get the last of the legs out of the 3 holes, even took the temp on my soldering iron up to 625 to see if would melt what was left, no luck. I flip flopped back and forth between a solder sucker and desoldering braid (which I don't think really pulled anything at all).
Any suggestions? I swear this is the part of the hobby that I despise- a 40-pin chip, I get 37 legs out, and I still can't move forward yet.
I can't seem to get the last of the legs out of the 3 holes, even took the temp on my soldering iron up to 625 to see if would melt what was left, no luck. I flip flopped back and forth between a solder sucker and desoldering braid (which I don't think really pulled anything at all).
Any suggestions? I swear this is the part of the hobby that I despise- a 40-pin chip, I get 37 legs out, and I still can't move forward yet.
If you don't care about destroying the chip, you can cut it out with some flushcutters.
http://www.therealbobroberts.net/xcelite.jpg
Also (if you're not already doing this), add some fresh solder to the legs before trying to remove the old solder. Fresh solder lowers the old solder's melting point....making for easier removal. Once you get it out....I'd give everything a good look over....paticularly the thru-holes.
Edward
http://www.therealbobroberts.net/xcelite.jpg
Also (if you're not already doing this), add some fresh solder to the legs before trying to remove the old solder. Fresh solder lowers the old solder's melting point....making for easier removal. Once you get it out....I'd give everything a good look over....paticularly the thru-holes.
Edward
OP
OP
Thanks I actually cut the chip off first so it was out of the way and then removed the legs one by one.
I'd tried the new solder thing in the past and it didn't really help me but it seems like now it's my only option left to try so I will give it a go. The legs appeared to have had acid damage on them, maybe from battery leakage on a prior game. The legs had that greenish oxidized look on the top side of the board. Hopefully this new PIA will start turning things back in the right direction!
Ahhh, acid corrosion changes things. That geen shit makes the solder seem like concrete. First thing....get some alcohol, acetone, whatever and clean thhe solder joint real good. Use a q-tip and remove any grime, flux etc. Next get some sand paper or a fiberglass pen.....and remove the green shit. carefully work on it until you get a little "shine" on the solder joint. Once you get down to "clean" solder, fresh solder will flow right into it. The entire joint doesn't have to be clean, just enough to get solder flowing into it.
Edward
Edward
OP
OP
I was trying something similar last night with a VERY small screwdriver. I was hoping if I could etch to the shiny spot on the solder it would melt. Stay tuned!
OP
OP
OK so here's where we are....
1. I got the last of the crap out of the IC11 slot using a sewing needle and very carefully working the last of the old solder out of the holes (after heating of course).
2. I installed a socket, installed the new PIA, and powered it up. No change in switch issues.
3. Since IC15 and IC16 are the same type of IC, (and I'd already replaced IC16) I removed IC15, put in a socket, and put a new chip there as well. The chip had been replaced before, but the soldering job was really bad. So, I don't know if it was poor connectivity or the chip was having a problem, but it had definitely been replaced before. I put the new chip in and fired up the machine.....
EVERYTHING WORKED!!!!
Now I did run into a setback after playing about 10 games after, but I think I know what is going on with it. When my daughter was playing one of the 10 games, the game somehow resulted in a tilt, and after that, I lost some of the switch connectivity again. The slam switch is on the same row as the top popout (don't know the formal name at the moment), and after a tilt and a game restart, the popout is no longer working again (it's one of the items that wasn't working prior). Other switches on that same row of the matrix are also out (I'm pretty sure it's row 1 or 2, don't have the manual in front of me). I replaced both chips at IC15 and IC16 again, but this time the problem remains. So, I'm guessing the PIA chip has gotten damaged again.
Down in the lower left corner of the pin body, there are quite a few wires that appear to have been burned or melted, so I'm sure that's where the problem lies. I want to disable ALL 3 TILTS, if someone can tell me how to do that it would be great- do I just put something between the switch leaves so they can't make contact? And for the plumb bob tilt, can I just remove the pendulum thing?
When I go back to work next week, I'll get another PIA chip at the store nearby and see if that resolves the issue again. The good news is, the outhole and a bunch of other critical switches are still working now. So, I can play the game fully, at least until the ball lands in the top popout-eject hole again.
But, I'm happy to say progress is being made!
1. I got the last of the crap out of the IC11 slot using a sewing needle and very carefully working the last of the old solder out of the holes (after heating of course).
2. I installed a socket, installed the new PIA, and powered it up. No change in switch issues.
3. Since IC15 and IC16 are the same type of IC, (and I'd already replaced IC16) I removed IC15, put in a socket, and put a new chip there as well. The chip had been replaced before, but the soldering job was really bad. So, I don't know if it was poor connectivity or the chip was having a problem, but it had definitely been replaced before. I put the new chip in and fired up the machine.....
EVERYTHING WORKED!!!!
Now I did run into a setback after playing about 10 games after, but I think I know what is going on with it. When my daughter was playing one of the 10 games, the game somehow resulted in a tilt, and after that, I lost some of the switch connectivity again. The slam switch is on the same row as the top popout (don't know the formal name at the moment), and after a tilt and a game restart, the popout is no longer working again (it's one of the items that wasn't working prior). Other switches on that same row of the matrix are also out (I'm pretty sure it's row 1 or 2, don't have the manual in front of me). I replaced both chips at IC15 and IC16 again, but this time the problem remains. So, I'm guessing the PIA chip has gotten damaged again.
Down in the lower left corner of the pin body, there are quite a few wires that appear to have been burned or melted, so I'm sure that's where the problem lies. I want to disable ALL 3 TILTS, if someone can tell me how to do that it would be great- do I just put something between the switch leaves so they can't make contact? And for the plumb bob tilt, can I just remove the pendulum thing?
When I go back to work next week, I'll get another PIA chip at the store nearby and see if that resolves the issue again. The good news is, the outhole and a bunch of other critical switches are still working now. So, I can play the game fully, at least until the ball lands in the top popout-eject hole again.
But, I'm happy to say progress is being made!
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OP
OP
Just wanted to provide another update...
The row that had the slam tilt switch and the top eject hole switch wasn't getting power from the driver board. I found out because I checked the pins on the 2J3 connector and the one for the row in question (white-violet wire) was showing 0 volts! I took the board out, resoldered the pin (after totally desoldering it first), and VOILA! Power restored!
The game is up and running at about 98% now, with the exception of the sound board doing chimes only (and some minor sound effects but not working perfectly), and one other minor issue (well I think it's minor) that I'm going to post in the pinball section.
THANK YOU TO ELUTZ, SUPERBEE, ORYK ZINYO, AND EVERYONE ELSE WHO HELPED ME BRING THIS PIN BACK TO LIFE!!
The row that had the slam tilt switch and the top eject hole switch wasn't getting power from the driver board. I found out because I checked the pins on the 2J3 connector and the one for the row in question (white-violet wire) was showing 0 volts! I took the board out, resoldered the pin (after totally desoldering it first), and VOILA! Power restored!
The game is up and running at about 98% now, with the exception of the sound board doing chimes only (and some minor sound effects but not working perfectly), and one other minor issue (well I think it's minor) that I'm going to post in the pinball section.
THANK YOU TO ELUTZ, SUPERBEE, ORYK ZINYO, AND EVERYONE ELSE WHO HELPED ME BRING THIS PIN BACK TO LIFE!!
