Thinking about allow non-validated members to view forum attachments....

[mclemore]

Currently, anyone with a verified email address can create a forum account, though they can't do much with it except post in a 'Communication With Moderators-Limited Access Users' section that only moderators can read new threads in.

To post, people have to pay the $1 or be approved by a friend (side note: the approve a friend feature should be back within 2 weeks).

That's worked well.

However, a user responded to a security email the system that went out, which led to a (slightly) further conversation. It turns out the person didn't want posting access, but simply signed up to view attachments on a thread or post. They couldn't because 'New Members' without posting access cant see attachments. In other words, they have the same view access as someone not logged in.

I'm inclined to let members signed up (but not $1 or friend approved) to actually view attachments. The opportunity for fraud isn't an issue (since they don't have general posting access). And if someone is inclined to abuse the system and download 10,000 attachments to misuse, well, $1 isn't much of a barrier any way.

Does anyone have any concerns?

 

[braedel]

I don't see the risk/harm either, I vote Aye.

~Brad

 

[andrewb]

No concerns. I occasionally point non-members to threads like mine with my 6100 bring-up guide, which is a PDF attachment.

Giving people a little more access is a good incentive to get them to become full forum participants.

 

[mclemore]

I went ahead and gave Probational Members the ability to view attachments. If anyone sees that as a problem for some reason, let me know.

I do think it is a good step to get someone towards becoming a full participant, and at least gives them some benefit on the forums from registering.

 

[Scott C]

Abuse of the photos (scammers, thieves, etc. using them elsewhere) was my initial thought and concern. As cheap/greedy as some of the people are, I still wonder if the $1 is a decent deterrent.

Even non-scammers steal stuff from KLOV, such as a douchbag on Facebook that claimed my List of Minis, Cabarets, Etc. was his, then had others on Facebook praising him for it. I always leave Easter Eggs in my work, and sure enough they were there.

Scott C.

 

[andrewb]

Even non-scammers steal stuff from KLOV, such as a douchbag on Facebook that claimed my List of Minis, Cabarets, Etc. was his, then had others on Facebook praising him for it. I always leave Easter Eggs in my work, and sure enough they were there.

Scott C.

Jesus, people will do anything for attention.

What a fucking cesspool.

 

[mclemore]

We are moving towards putting watermarks on all images on the site except for flyers. We are a good way through there on the main site. That said I've tried a half dozen watermark removers. 5 were junk. The 6th wasn't. The tech is getting easier all the time.

We will have a mechanism for people to download a higher quality image in very limited quantities (especially if they are working on say, a book). I'm not worried about someone taking 1 or 20 images from the site (though if they use them for bogus listings on eBay or Facebook that is really 'not good').

My larger concern are the bulk scrapers. Like the guy that downloaded the entire KLOV database (all text, all images) and set up his own site to steal our Google organic traffic (and then he wondered why I stuck a lawyer on him). Or the scammer game store in Orange County that downloaded all our forum messages and then inserted them into his own forum software install.

 

[andrewb]

We are moving towards putting watermarks on all images on the site except for flyers. We are a good way through there on the main site. That said I've tried a half dozen watermark removers. 5 were junk. The 6th wasn't. The tech is getting easier all the time.

We will have a mechanism for people to download a higher quality image in very limited quantities (especially if they are working on say, a book). I'm not worried about someone taking 1 or 20 images from the site (though if they use them for bogus listings on eBay or Facebook that is really 'not good').

My larger concern are the bulk scrapers. Like the guy that downloaded the entire KLOV database (all text, all images) and set up his own site to steal our Google organic traffic (and then he wondered why I stuck a lawyer on him). Or the scammer game store in Orange County that downloaded all our forum messages and then inserted them into his own forum software install.

On a related note, is there any way we can get a way for users to download all of their own posts?

I have almost 25,000+ posts here (plus a few thousand more PM's), which are the single largest repository my own text in existence, and contain a lot of information. I would like to have access to that, for personal use, language model training, etc.

Related thread where this has been discussed/requested before:

Question to the admins about an AI project

So I had an idea for an ambitious project using ChatGPT or some similar LLM using information in the forum to train the model. The idea was.. what if you could 'chat' with ken Layton... after his passing it's clear his expertise on monitors is missed and his knowledge is strewn across multiple...

forums.arcade-museum.com

 

[Scott C]

Watermarks are a great idea, and I'm glad that worked 5 out of 6 times. That's something. Are there other options to prevent the theft of images or the site? I know Microsoft offers applications for SharePoint, so perhaps there is something for a more general site. It blocks someone from downloading/viewing more than xx number of files within a certain period of time, IP address, etc.

Scott C.

 

[mclemore]

On a related note, is there any way we can get a way for users to download all of their own posts?[/URL]

I recall installing a plugin that would allow people to download their conversations/posts. If you can't find it, let me know.

There isn't a mechanism to do the same for posts. While it wouldn't be too hard to build, there is so much still in queue for development here, that downloading posts isn't something we'll likely look at before the late summer or fall.

know Microsoft offers applications for SharePoint, so perhaps there is something for a more general site. It blocks someone from downloading/viewing more than xx number of files within a certain period of time, IP address

It isn't hard for someone technically literate to make every single image download come from a different IP address. We can tinker with photos to be able to proof they were stolen from here, but we essentially can't keep someone from scaping the site, at least technically. If this site continues to grow and serve its purpose, there may be less people who might feel the need to scape through.

Along those lines, after we are basically done with the site in the coming months, we may then explore the pros/cons of offering up data APIs here.

 

[andrewb]

I recall installing a plugin that would allow people to download their conversations/posts. If you can't find it, let me know.

I asked about bulk downloading PM's when we switched to Xenforo (because I used to regularly download an archive my PM's in vB), and the answer was that it wasn't possible. I believe the plugin would only allow you to download all posts in a single convo.

I get that there's a lot on the development plate. But it's kind of ironic that you're telling me a hacker can scrape the entire site and host a copy of it, but members here can't get access to their own posts.

 

[r3v]

On a related note, is there any way we can get a way for users to download all of their own posts?

"All posts, including any attachments, links, or images, submitted via the forum Services or otherwise, will be non-confidential and shall automatically become the sole property of KLOV."




... just kidding ...

 

[mclemore]

I asked about bulk downloading PM's when we switched to Xenforo (because I used to regularly download an archive my PM's in vB), and the answer was that it wasn't possible. I believe the plugin would only allow you to download all posts in a single convo.

I get that there's a lot on the development plate. But it's kind of ironic that you're telling me a hacker can scrape the entire site and host a copy of it, but members here can't get access to their own posts.

I think the plugin I installed was for the old vBulletin site, not long before we moved to Xenforo. So my bad, there isn't one currently here. I just did another search. 'Export Conversations' for Xenforo was released by someone named 'Valhalla' but unfortunately the project was cancelled in January 2017.

I'm saying that it isn't technically practical to stop a talented scraper. Its still effort.

To your inquiry... we will build export conversations before export threads. But we will finish up gaming editing/adding, manufacturer editing/adding, and images contribution and processing before any export features.

 

[Scott C]

I recall installing a plugin that would allow people to download their conversations/posts. If you can't find it, let me know.

There isn't a mechanism to do the same for posts. While it wouldn't be too hard to build, there is so much still in queue for development here, that downloading posts isn't something we'll likely look at before the late summer or fall.



It isn't hard for someone technically literate to make every single image download come from a different IP address. We can tinker with photos to be able to proof they were stolen from here, but we essentially can't keep someone from scaping the site, at least technically. If this site continues to grow and serve its purpose, there may be less people who might feel the need to scape through.

Along those lines, after we are basically done with the site in the coming months, we may then explore the pros/cons of offering up data APIs here.

Thanks for the feedback and discussion. Different IPs are also caught with the Microsoft method. It's about quantity and time.

Scott C.

 

[Hoppy2021]

I say let em see the picss. If members had to see @thegleek in a Speedo, then non members should have the same occular trauma and ongoing nightmares! j/k