Thief Error

troxel

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Got a Thief yesterday and get the following error. Does checksum error at 0 indicate bad ROM at rom0 and or rom1? What does the fg and bk RAM error mean? I thought it might have been chip location, but doesn't look like it. I'll look at it somre more when I have a chance, but hoping for some feedback from other people.
 

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Yes, there is a ROM 0 checksum error. ROM 0 corresponds to the ROM at location N1 (which the manual doesn't tell you, but I figured out from past repairs). It might be a bad ROM, or just a dirty socket, or potentially other board issues, but you'll want to check that ROM first.

The RAM errors are the video RAM. I've seen these before as well. I think the letters do somehow correspond to location, but I was never able to figure out the code, and the manual doesn't give any info. So what I ended up doing was just taking a good RAM, and one by one swapping it out for each of them (they're the large array of chips, not the 2114's, and should all be socketed), until I found the bad one.

FYI, I repair these boards, if you end up having other issues (see my sig). I also have a couple of refurbished and warrantied full sets ready, if you want to trade yours in for working ones, rather than wait in my repair queue.

Also, here are a couple of other threads with some additional relevant Thief info (including posts from me), if they're of any help:

Griffin's thread:
http://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=392898

b_koenig's thread:
http://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=383935
 
I'm a bit jealous. Shark Attack, which uses the same hardware, doesn't have nearly this depth of self test. It reports checksums, but that's of no use without the manual (which only covers 1 version). Go figure. Yes, those 4116 RAMs go bad frequently. All of the ones on a spare I repaired were bad.
 
I'm a bit jealous. Shark Attack, which uses the same hardware, doesn't have nearly this depth of self test. It reports checksums, but that's of no use without the manual (which only covers 1 version). Go figure. Yes, those 4116 RAMs go bad frequently. All of the ones on a spare I repaired were bad.


Interesting, and good to know. If you have a bad Shark Attack boardset, I suppose you could swap the ROMs to Thief, just to get the self-tests, and help debug the board.

I believe NATO Defense is just a straight ROM swap, but I haven't yet confirmed if Shark Attack is as well. If it is, it's possible that a triple-ROM mod could be done, to give you all 3 games on one board. I have it on my list to look into this, but just haven't gotten to it yet.
 
I believe Thief (and maybe NATO Defense) uses a 3rd PCB which Shark Attack does not, but the main and audio I/O are the same. I think Shark Attack pre-dates the others by a year or so.
 
Thanks for the help. That should get me pointed in the right direction.

My cabinet is beat to hell, too. Looks like a common thing with these games. I have the player, but no tape. So will have to decide what route to go down the road. My first goal is to get a working game and then go from there.
 
Thanks for the help. That should get me pointed in the right direction.

My cabinet is beat to hell, too. Looks like a common thing with these games. I have the player, but no tape. So will have to decide what route to go down the road. My first goal is to get a working game and then go from there.




I highly suggest the MP3 route, which I covered in one of my posts. I have a zip file with all four different audio tracks I've collected, which I gathered and cleaned up, editing down the file size and adding some filtering, to better emulate the tape quality.

There is the original track, two I got from koolmoecraig (an NWA 'F*** the Police' version, and a COPS track), plus the redub of the original script that John Jacobsen did for his John's Arcade channel, in his voice, which is kinda funny if you listen to his channel.

You can put each one on a different SD card, and pop each one in and out to change tracks, if you mount the player inside the coin door. (Or you can have all of them as one big track, and let it cycle through all of them.) Plus, it will let you switch over easily if/once I get a NATO Defense multikit working for these boardsets, though I don't have a copy of that track yet.

I can send you the zip file if interested, but it's currently stuck on an old laptop of mine that died, and I need to pull the drive and get a IDE to USB adapter, to access the drive as it's such an old machine. But once I pull it off I'll post it somewhere for anyone who wants it.
 
AndrewB, thanks for the offer. I will take you up on the audio when you have a chance to retrieve them.

On a side note, I started to look at the schematics today and wondering why I am getting different values for the RAM (2114) range than what MAME has. MAME has 8000-8FFF. I am getting 8000-9FFF when I do it. I am getting bit 15 high and the rest low for 8000, and then bits 15, 12-0 high for 9FFF. Where am I going wrong?
 

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AndrewB, thanks for the offer. I will take you up on the audio when you have a chance to retrieve them.

On a side note, I started to look at the schematics today and wondering why I am getting different values for the RAM (2114) range than what MAME has. MAME has 8000-8FFF. I am getting 8000-9FFF when I do it. I am getting bit 15 high and the rest low for 8000, and then bits 15, 12-0 high for 9FFF. Where am I going wrong?


Sorry, can't help you there, as I'm not a MAME guy.

What are you trying to do with that info?
 
AndrewB, thanks for the offer. I will take you up on the audio when you have a chance to retrieve them.

On a side note, I started to look at the schematics today and wondering why I am getting different values for the RAM (2114) range than what MAME has. MAME has 8000-8FFF. I am getting 8000-9FFF when I do it. I am getting bit 15 high and the rest low for 8000, and then bits 15, 12-0 high for 9FFF. Where am I going wrong?

You're actually correct. Presumably the PCB doesn't have all 16 of the 2114 RAMs installed so MAME only covers the memory range that is actually present.
 
Sorry, can't help you there, as I'm not a MAME guy.

What are you trying to do with that info?

More of an exercise to figure out the address decoding. I like to work it out and then double check with MAME. I will then use the information and plug it into my Fluke. I did the same with the ROMS and the video RAM.

You're actually correct. Presumably the PCB doesn't have all 16 of the 2114 RAMs installed so MAME only covers the memory range that is actually present.

Phil, thanks for the input. That make perfect sense.
 
Rom 0 was bad. Checked all ROMS and reconnected all connectors. Replaced Rom 0 and now able to somewhat see the game. Need to look at the 4116s next. Only had a couple minutes today.

Voltage seem to be erratic at times. I imagine the PS needs to be rebuilt or switch over to a switcher. Need to check the header pins, too.

Looks like I need to find a replacement CPO (along with a new cabinet).
 

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Can I just run the main pcb on my bench or do I need the other 2 connected (or at least the co-processor) to see the video?
 
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