THE Strangest problem I have EVER seen

coinopshop

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Guys, I've been doing this a long time. But I've never seen this weird of a problem.

I'm buliding a poker machine for myself. It's in a metal cabinet ( keyword- "METAL CABINET" ). Everything works great EXCEPT the bill unit , a HSV-300

If I take the bill unit out of the machine ( say on the floor ) it accepts bills and works fantastic. But as soon as I mount it to the metal cabinet ( theres the keyword again ), It takes a bill and just keeps running without giving credits.

So I know it sounds like a ground problem right ? Wrong. I've tried different bill units, power supplies and even poker pcb's. I've taken a continuity tester to "see" if I have some type of short but comes up empty.

Any ideas would be a great help.
 
Maybe it's not an electrical problem... If you can't find a short between the bill acceptor's housing and the cabinet, then maybe it's a magnetic problem. Is there a reed or hall effect type switch in that acceptor somewhere? I know it's a long shot, but try using your monitor degaussing coil on the cabinet, then re-mounting the bill acceptor. If you have a compass, you can use that to check how magnetized (if any) the cabinet is. Also, are you mounting it near a speaker?

-Ian
 
Are you sure the outlet is wired correctly? If EG and neutral were reversed that can cause issues.

Pugged machine into 2 different outlets. Even ran a separate power strip and by passed the AC ( in ) . Still same problem.

The bill unit is no where near the speaker but there is an optic switch ( shouldn't cause a problem ) right next to it. Optic is door open switch.
 
Is it a positional problem? You say it runs great on the floor (I assume lying down) but when mounted upright is when the issues start.

I'd would have also tried isolating it from the rest of the cab, but isn't the frame plastic anyway on that acceptor?
 
Another question: is the cabinet front flat, or is it slightly bent? Perhaps you're tightening the screws too much, warping the housing of the acceptor and causing it to malfunction.

-Ian
 
Another question: is the cabinet front flat, or is it slightly bent? Perhaps you're tightening the screws too much, warping the housing of the acceptor and causing it to malfunction.

-Ian

Flat but at a 30 degree angle. Now, I can take the unit off the machine, hold it at a 30 degree angle and it works. But in the machine is doesn't.

I have mounted 100 HSV bill acceptors over the years in metal cabinets without this EVER happening. This is incredibly odd.
 
Just got back from Lowe's. Bought rubber grommets, plastic washers. Put them on the mounting plate, installed it into the machine and I STILL have the same problem. The bracket is somehow still touching the metal cabinet, somehow.

To stop my head from spinning, I have decided that I'll buy an all plastic APEX 5400 bill unit from anybody that has one for sale. It must be the stackerless model, +12 or 120 AC will work.
 
Are you sure it's still an electrical problem? Try putting the acceptor back on the floor, where it works. Verify that it's functioning. Then, using a clip lead, purposely connect the bracket to the cabinet. See if it still works.

I can't help but think that it's not electrical. These bill units are *designed* to work in metal housings. Soda machines are made of metal. So are coin changers.

I still think you're dealing with something that's affecting the sensors. If it's not magnetic, what about optical? You say the thing has optical sensors, is it right near a light bulb, or other light source?

-Ian
 
Are you sure it's still an electrical problem? Try putting the acceptor back on the floor, where it works. Verify that it's functioning. Then, using a clip lead, purposely connect the bracket to the cabinet. See if it still works.

I can't help but think that it's not electrical. These bill units are *designed* to work in metal housings. Soda machines are made of metal. So are coin changers.

I still think you're dealing with something that's affecting the sensors. If it's not magnetic, what about optical? You say the thing has optical sensors, is it right near a light bulb, or other light source?

-Ian

I mis-spoke. The optical door sensor was removed from the machine. There is nothing near the bill unit other than a flourescent light fixture ( and YES I unplugged the light and still have the same problem )
 
MYSTERY SOLVED. The HSV-300 bill unit can't function under the angle I have it mounted at. The timing of the rear optic ( plastic bar on rear of unit ) stays open too long and the unit "thinks" it is being "stringed ". I do believe the APEX acceptors do not use the any major moving "gates" and such, so I should be ok with one of those.

My other option is to somehow figure out how to mount my existing HSV on a more level manner, but that optioin is a last resort cause I'd have to fabricate a whole new bracket and re-design the control panel to which the bill unit is mounted on.

Good news is, I NOT CRAZY ! What a relief.......
 
I mis-spoke. The optical door sensor was removed from the machine. There is nothing near the bill unit other than a flourescent light fixture ( and YES I unplugged the light and still have the same problem )

And how close is the ballast from the light fixture to the bill changer?

I still can't help but think that there is something else going on, non-electrical. Did you check to see if the cabinet is magnetized? Did you try connecting up the bill unit externally, and connecting the mounting plate to the metal cabinet with wire? Any other potential stray light sources eliminated by covering the bill unit with a piece of cardboard when installed?

-Ian
 
I thought you said you tested it at angle outside the machine? :D

Maybe you can modify the unit, adding a tiny spring, or moving the gate slightly.

-Ian
 
Positional! I knew it. :)

Can you shim it?

I'm not sure. I cut out a hole towards the top of the control panel. I kinda am trying to make this thing appear or look "real". I've enclosed a pic of the mounting I was trying to accomplish. I probably should have done that to start with.

I would now have to fabricate some type of triangular bracket which would attach to the control panel under-neath, cut out a larger hole to accomadate this and then the bill unit would also attach to the mount and sit more level. OR.....just get an APEX 5400.
 

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I thought you said you tested it at angle outside the machine? :D


-Ian

I was just so darn pissed off that after all my hard work the thing wasn't working right. The bill acceptor was the final step in geting this thing done.

I obviously wasn't holding the acceptor at the same or even enough of an angle as it was mounted in the machine.

Just goes to show you, even a 25+ year veteran tech can get stumped when not thinking a situation out fully.
 
Oh...hrm...either get the other bill acceptor or move it to another location.

Moving it isn't an option. Trust me, I'll fabricate something or get the other bill unit to get this thing done. I'm building this machine for a person whose interested in buying one. They want it to be as close as possible to a real video slot. And if I can't buy it, I build it. No short-cuts when I'm doing a custom machine.

I appreciate everyones' help on my misery. All I had to do is lean down and look and see the bar on the rear of the bill unit wasn't coming back down to it's proper position. Odd I couldn't think of something SO SIMPLE.....Dohhh !
 
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