Tempest spinner quit

[andrewb]

Yeah, it was pretty late and my hands aren't as steady as they used to be. My daughter has many shades of nail polish to tack those wires down

You don't want to use nail polish here, that will be ugly. (That's more for kynar wire repairs, and shorter runs.) If you find the spots I'm referring to, you don't need the long wires.

 

[RobMcRaf]

You don't want to use nail polish here, that will be ugly. (That's more for kynar wire repairs, and shorter runs.) If you find the spots I'm referring to, you don't need the long wires.

It's not going to stay that way long. Now that I know the PCB is OK, I'll go back and do the 512k w/ tempest tubes mod.

 

[andrewb]

It's not going to stay that way long. Now that I know the PCB is OK, I'll go back and do the 512k w/ tempest tubes mod.

Cool. The same applies. The additional signals you'll need in that case (5V and GND, to toggle the high address bits) are also right near the chip.

Here's one of my old 4-way mods, from this thread:
https://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=406475

 

[RobMcRaf]

Very nice! Thanks for the help. Glad to have this knocked out before the weekend. Already pending sale to local collector. Young guy. Very excited.

 

[andrewb]

Make sure you really put that board through the rigors, burn-in wise. Else you may end up with an unhappy customer in a week, if it craps out after he receives it, as the chances of that are fairly high.

You want to be running it long hours (18-24 at a time), and give it a day or two rest at least once, then resume. A board like that that hasn't run in years, I'd be sure to burn it in for a week before selling it, as you have about a 50% chance of something letting go once it starts getting heavy use again. (Usually one of the DACs or analog chips.)

If a board doesn't crap out in the first 48 hours of testing, I'll actually get a little suspicious, and run it another few days, just to be sure, as the probability of something failing is actually pretty high with these in my experience, if it's been sitting unpowered for years.

Also, always burn-in test without the monitor, so you won't damage it if/when the game board does crap out.

 

[RobMcRaf]

Copy that, what is the current wisdom about putting a recirculation fan in there near the monitor chassis?

Make sure you really put that board through the rigors, burn-in wise. Else you may end up with an unhappy customer in a week, if it craps out after he receives it, as the chances of that are fairly high.

You want to be running it long hours (18-24 at a time), and give it a day or two rest at least once, then resume. A board like that that hasn't run in years, I'd be sure to burn it in for a week before selling it, as you have about a 50% chance of something letting go once it starts getting heavy use again. (Usually one of the DACs or analog chips.)

If a board doesn't crap out in the first 48 hours of testing, I'll actually get a little suspicious, and run it another few days, just to be sure, as the probability of something failing is actually pretty high with these in my experience, if it's been sitting unpowered for years.

Also, always burn-in test without the monitor, so you won't damage it if/when the game board does crap out.

 

[andrewb]

Copy that, what is the current wisdom about putting a recirculation fan in there near the monitor chassis?

The better thing to do is put a single exhaust fan at the top vent of the cab, to draw cool air in through the lower intake vent (near the wheels, at the bottom), and up and over everything in the cab (AR, game board, and monitor), and out the top vent. That way you cool everything in the cab. (Versus just blowing hot air around inside the cab, if you just put a fan on the monitor).

These cabs are designed for convection cooling (via the top and bottom vents), but adding a little power to help move more air through the cab does wonders.

Here's a thread:

https://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=435646

I recommend this to everyone who gets rebuilt boards from me, if they intend to run their vectors on location. And the folks who have done it have far fewer issues (basically none).

 

[RobMcRaf]

Welp, bit of a step back. During monitor testing, one of the working deflection boards decided to lose +X deflection. No spot killer, just right hand of screen (when viewed horizontally) no picture.

and the other "working" deflection board started out ok, then the little transistor on the LV2000 (one near the red wire) started smoking and F700 blew. Spot killer came on.

Guess I am starting from scratch.

 

[andrewb]

Yep. See comments above about burn-in testing.

You've just got to start from square one again. Follow my guide, from the beginning. Verify the game board's output first, then test all frame transistors. Those will give you a clue, as you'll likely find two or more (probably four) bad.

Knowing which bottlecaps are bad will tell you which axis you have an issue in on the deflection board (as remember that bad frame transistors are usually not the problem, but rather a symptom of other issues on the deflection board). As long as the game board's output is ok, then it's most likely a deflection board issue.

Check the HV cage as well, and make sure C901/902 (or any of the others) are bulged, which can occur when you see the LV2000 fry.

 

[RobMcRaf]

For the one that burned up the LV2000: Took deflection PCB readings and found that:
- R702 390-ohm was burned open (visible damage and metered)
- Q703 MPSU57 had open E-B junction.
All the other "700" components checked out OK.
Checked all the 600 transistors OK.

and on the other with the missing +X deflection, found a super-cracked-cold joint on pin 1 of J700. Hopefully that is it. (I should really take a picture of this before fixing. Textbook bad joint)

 

[andrewb]

Reflow all joints. That's very possibly what killed things, as the voltages get out of whack when they crack. That will cause Qx03/x04 transistors to blow, which blows the frame transistors, which can also even take out your HV cage in some cases. Reflowing is a given with all vector monitor boards. Always.

Check D602/702 as well. They like to short when the transistors blow.

 

[RobMcRaf]

Reflow all joints. That's very possibly what killed things, as the voltages get out of whack when they crack. That will cause Qx03/x04 transistors to blow, which blows the frame transistors, which can also even take out your HV cage in some cases. Reflowing is a given with all vector monitor boards. Always.

Check D602/702 as well. They like to short when the transistors blow.

Those diodes are OK. Hopefully have a chance to do some more digging into the units prior to Sunday.

Either way, I owe you a few beers at the D. A. Long tavern next weekend.

 

[andrewb]

You should replace those two diodes anyway BTW, as they're another common failure. Esp if they're the orange glass ones. Not all of them, just D602/702. They take a lot of heat from the power resistors sitting right on top of them, so they are pretty tired. (I actually mount the replacements on the underside of the PCB, to shield them from the heat).

 

[RobMcRaf]

You should replace those two diodes anyway BTW, as they're another common failure. Esp if they're the orange glass ones. Not all of them, just D602/702. They take a lot of heat from the power resistors sitting right on top of them, so they are pretty tired. (I actually mount the replacements on the underside of the PCB, to shield them from the heat).

OK, good idea. Half of them are the glass types. Might as well replace the tantalums while there is a break in the action.

 

[andrewb]

OK, good idea. Half of them are the glass types. Might as well replace the tantalums while there is a break in the action.

Again, not all of them. It's really only D602/702 that are the issues. The smaller glass 1N914's that are all around the board are never a problem. It's fine to leave those. Just replace D602/702 with 1N4007's.

The four spot killer tantalums (C800-803) are hit or miss. I've seen plenty of originals that still test fine (as you can test them for ESR, and you can see that the bad ones go high). But it doesn't hurt to replace them. I use 1uF 50V Nichicons from Digikey, 493-10330-1-ND.

 

[FlashbaxArcade]

Subscribed/following and learning a lot from you guys, thanks. I installed a new Arcadeshop LV2K pcb and came on fine, but playing blind(finally got one boardset of many to work as I have 6 non working to go through, ughh). I thought I had a very faint pic, so turned up screen on fly and blew F100 next to the new LV2K. I then went ahead and did a capkit, all 6 frame transistors, still blows F100. Noticed F101 was blow as well(not sure when). Checked for shorted frame transistors, all seem good. Could I have blow the LV2K pcb at all?

SORRY if I'm hyjacking, should I start another post? Haven't been on in some time lately and don't know the courtesy.

Thanks

 

[RobMcRaf]

I wouldn't worry about it since this thing was steered waaayyy off-course anyways

Sounds like to you need to start at step 1 again. As far as knowing if you blew the LV2000, I'm not sure. Maybe Jeff (the original maker of them) would know.
FWIW, it sounds like you are troubleshooting inside-out. Are you doing this with the monitor removed and on a bench? I picked up a color vector extender cable from Ebay and it is totally worth it in terms of safety and ease (when compared to trying to do this stuff with the monitor installed).

You checked for shorted frame transistors: Does that mean you checked for shorts to the frame, or did you also do the transistor testing (all the C to B to E checks)?

Subscribed/following and learning a lot from you guys, thanks. I installed a new Arcadeshop LV2K pcb and came on fine, but playing blind(finally got one boardset of many to work as I have 6 non working to go through, ughh). I thought I had a very faint pic, so turned up screen on fly and blew F100 next to the new LV2K. I then went ahead and did a capkit, all 6 frame transistors, still blows F100. Noticed F101 was blow as well(not sure when). Checked for shorted frame transistors, all seem good. Could I have blow the LV2K pcb at all?

SORRY if I'm hyjacking, should I start another post? Haven't been on in some time lately and don't know the courtesy.

Thanks

 

[FlashbaxArcade]

I wish I had a bench test rig or an oscilloscope but do not. When I replaced all the frame transistors with new ones, I tested shorts to frame. Maybe I should retest now I assume. It's been awhile since I've worked on a 6100, like 10 yrs haha. I need to find my extender cable like yours that I bought yrs ago too.

I wouldn't worry about it since this thing was steered waaayyy off-course anyways

Sounds like to you need to start at step 1 again. As far as knowing if you blew the LV2000, I'm not sure. Maybe Jeff (the original maker of them) would know.
FWIW, it sounds like you are troubleshooting inside-out. Are you doing this with the monitor removed and on a bench? I picked up a color vector extender cable from Ebay and it is totally worth it in terms of safety and ease (when compared to trying to do this stuff with the monitor installed).

You checked for shorted frame transistors: Does that mean you checked for shorts to the frame, or did you also do the transistor testing (all the C to B to E checks)?

 

[RobMcRaf]

I wish I had a bench test rig or an oscilloscope but do not. When I replaced all the frame transistors with new ones, I tested shorts to frame. Maybe I should retest now I assume. It's been awhile since I've worked on a 6100, like 10 yrs haha. I need to find my extender cable like yours that I bought yrs ago too.

Well, AndrewB wrote a very nice "How to bring up a 6100 monitor" step-by-step.
https://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=404600

Will help you get your mental gears greased.

 

[FlashbaxArcade]

Well, AndrewB wrote a very nice "How to bring up a 6100 monitor" step-by-step.
https://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=404600

Will help you get your mental gears greased.

Great, thanks for the link and I'll check it out.

Happen to know where one could purchase some Atari Tempest custom chips? I acquired several pcbs missing several things also * I'd like to do the best upgrades as well, including Tubes and Breakout(I heard).

Thanks again