Tempest problems / Optical issue [solved/closed]

ChadTower

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I have a Tempest here that until recently was working fine. It seems to boot okay but if I put it in self test it won't even pass the first ram test. The manual indicates that if it stays on the first one that is the Vector ROM at N/P3. That's fairly clear, and these issues are normally sockets, so I swapped out that socket. No change with the new socket, same error, same boot behaviour.

I'm assuming the next step is to swap out those two Vector ROM chips. Does anyone know of a good source? I'm trying with HobbyROMs but he doesn't seem to know what I'm talking about.
 
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Do you not know anyone locally with a device programmer that could verify them for you?
 
Do you not know anyone locally with a device programmer that could verify them for you?


Fair question. I do but they're far enough away that my free time these days won't allow me to drive over to any of them and ask the favor. Schedules just don't match up, etc. Given that it's only $10 or so in chips I'm going to swap them with known good new ones. Local friends have been giving me great advice on how to proceed with the troubleshooting. I may not have gotten this far without them. This wasn't the first issue. :)
 
Ordered the chips from hyperneogeo. He delivered them quickly and inexpensively. Popped N/P3 in and that error code went away.

Thanks for the recommendation, guys.

To close off the thread, the solution was a new ROM at N/P3. I also replaced the socket but that wasn't the actual issue.
 
Still working on this board. Rather than start a new thread I'm going to alter the title a bit and keep this one going. Any help is, as always, greatly appreciated.

Another issue I am having with this board is Pokey #1 has been failing self test. I'd have good audio but the spinner would be non responsive. Spinner tested good in every way, recently rebuilt, and I even swapped in a NOS Major Havoc roller and it tested the same. So the spinner optical board is okay.

I know I have a Pokey issue because the self test is indicating a failure there. P on the self test screen indicating "Audio 1" failure of B/C2.

I have another Aux board that had a video issue but the IO and audio were good. I swapped a Pokey from that board. The spinner started working... mostly. If I spin clockwise it works just fine. If I spin counterclockwise slowly it works but any speed counterclockwise causes the ship to reverse direction to clockwise. Also many of the game sounds are gone now.

I have replaced with an assumed good Pokey but I have not swapped out the socket. Should that be the next step? And if I do that should I swap both Pokey sockets just in case?
 
UPDATE:

I grabbed some brush on DeOxit and used it on both Pokey sockets, the interboard connectors/headers, and the edge connectors. Didn't correct this.

I took the other pokey from the spare Aux board and tried it. It gives me all audio but the spinner counterclockwise motion is still a problem.

My son had a thought. I also installed the brash bushings upgrade during this process. I wonder if I have always had this counterclockwise issue but never saw it because the old spinner bushings weren't capable of that speed. It does spin SO MUCH BETTER now.

At this point I can only assume the issue isn't the pokey. I'm going to swap in my Major Havoc roller and see if the issue remains.
 
If you have any other game with an opto (trakball, etc), you can just swap the opto boards, keeping everything else the same. Also, check wiring, edge connector, etc.

It could also be one of the chips on the aux board, between the edge connector and the Pokey.
 
If they aren't just dirty, the optos just weaken and die. Sometimes it's the TX side, and sometimes the RX side. There isn't much to them. You can get cracks in the header pins, so you can try reflowing if you see cracks, but it's most likely just the opto itself.
 
If they aren't just dirty, the optos just weaken and die. Sometimes it's the TX side, and sometimes the RX side. There isn't much to them. You can get cracks in the header pins, so you can try reflowing if you see cracks, but it's most likely just the opto itself.


You might be right. We just swapped in the optic board from our Pole Position and that one only goes clockwise. Both directions of spin go clockwise.

The MH roller is a repro (infamous Ram Controls version) and has a Happ optical board. I'd prefer to leave that one alone since my next project is a Major Havoc that's going to use it.

Do you suggest a specific vendor for the rebuild parts? I've never had an optical board issue before.
 
A few notes:

- I believe the Happ opto boards are pinned differently, and in order to exchange them with the Atari ones, you need to swap a couple of the wires on the connector. (I forget the specifics, but if you search, you can find them.) Just FYI, if you're trying to mix and match, as I don't know how the MH roller was designed, and if whatever harness you're plugging it into may already be reversed.


- Note there are two variations of the Atari opto board. There are actually a ton of PCB revs (i.e., the letter in the square box), but they all have the same electrical layout. They can also be hand-labeled -01 and -02, however the main practical difference is the resistor (which is the only other thing on there).

Some of them have 100 ohms, and others 150 ohms. I've read that this is supposed to correspond to the -01 and -02 numbers, but I'm not convinced of that, as I was actually (coincidentally) just looking at this today, and I have some that appear original (no signs of rework) that are both labeled -01, with different resistors.

I know there are also some with 2 mounting holes drilled on each side, while others have 3. Again, I'm not sure if this is what the -0x corresponds to, and I haven't dug into the manuals to try to cross reference the part numbers. I also don't know which game(s) used the 150 ohm resistor vs the 100, or if this makes an actual difference. I do know the Tempest schematics show 100, so there's that. This is an area where IMO more research needs to be done, but I just wanted to give you a heads up, in case it's making a difference in your case.

(Actually, here's a link with some info about all of the above. Bob Roberts had a page too, but I can't find it at the moment: )

http://www.arcaderestoration.com/Articles/1/Bob+Roberts/59/A+Look+at+Trackballs.aspx
 
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Hrm, if we want to do some of that research now, I'm game.

The PP board has three holes. The Tempest board has two.

The Tempest has the original board with it. The Happ board in the MH roller works perfectly. But the original Tempest board, that was in there when I got the game and has always worked well, is not working now. So there if there is a pinout difference then I need to figure that out. Something is fishy there.
 
a tempest of mine was giving me all sorts of test screen errors which wouldn't go away by chip replacement - finally i repinned the harness edge connectors and made a new interconnect harness with trifurcon pins and all of my issues went away

not saying this is your problem but i did also have what seemed to be pokey issues

now to figure out my monitor glitch - grrr
 
- Note there are two variations of the Atari opto board. There are actually a ton of PCB revs (i.e., the letter in the square box), but they all have the same electrical layout. They can also be hand-labeled -01 and -02, however the main practical difference is the resistor (which is the only other thing on there).

Some of them have 100 ohms, and others 150 ohms. I've read that this is supposed to correspond to the -01 and -02 numbers, but I'm not convinced of that, as I was actually (coincidentally) just looking at this today, and I have some that appear original (no signs of rework) that are both labeled -01, with different resistors.


Doing some reading I found this thread that says the only difference between the revisions is that resistor and that either of them work just fine. So they should be completely interchangeable.
 
Doing some reading I found this thread that says the only difference between the revisions is that resistor and that either of them work just fine. So they should be completely interchangeable.


Yeah, I know that thread of Ken's, but I'm interested to look deeper. Atari frequently changed a lot of little things with their designs (if you look at the PCB layout revs, and different board versions, for a given game), and I assume had reasons for doing so, as any change involves cost and risk, and must be justified.

They didn't always document the what or why, but sometimes you can figure that out if you look into things. It could be to improve performance or reliability, or due to a change in other parts, or even availability of components, etc, as Atari was cranking these things out by the thousands, and was sourcing parts from multiple places, in some cases.

In this case I'm sure both will work, but there still is likely some reason it was changed (or two different values were used, for different games). And if you have a system that is marginally working, the difference could be more important. So it's just something to keep in mind.
 
Did a bit more verification.

MH Roller with the Happ board works perfectly.

Optic board from the Tempest, after reflowing everything, works mostly. If rate of change counterclockwise is too great it starts to jump clockwise until rate of change slows. It's like the switch gets overwhelmed for a second and then recovers.

Optic board from PP runs clockwise if the spinner spins in either direction.

I'm guessing the PP is just further along into optical switch failure but it's really the same thing going on there. The fact that the MH roller works so well rules out pretty much anything else.

I can't find the currently available replacement opto. Is there one or does everyone switch to the Happ board now?


EDIT: I ended up ordering two Happ boards from Twisted Quarter. I figure I'll need one for that Pole Position as well.
 
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