Tempest playing blind
- Thread starter shirkle
- Start date
modessitt
Volunteer: Encyclopedia Submission Moderator
If you're reading on diode test, pull them out and test them again. if you get 0's both ways again, then they are bad and that's why your fuses are blowing...
Not joking dude, but join the "Fried 6100" club. I'm right there with you. Just want you to know you're not alone. I'm on something like 10 6.25A fuses now, and I'm rebuilding the boards for the 2nd time.
First rebuild: I did the Zanen kit + extra parts + LV2000, tested the deflection board and got my good +-26v voltages. I connected everything back into the monitor and powered up the whole thing to the beautiful glow of F100 and F101 blowing.
Pulling all boards out again, I see something ran amuck and smoked most of all my work.
I found a complete short to ground on the BU204 bottlecap transistor to the HV cage frame, although I don't know if this happened before or after I powered up. That was the only transistor I failed to check for continuity to it's frame. Now I know to test all my diodes and transistors before powering up next time...
If it doesn't work this time, it's going off to Chad. I don't have time to dick with it anymore. Just do your diode tests on all your diodes and transistors. They should read voltage one way (.5-.6v) and (oF) the other way. Same thing with the base-emitter test on a transistor. I had fried shit everywhere that I probably didn't realize the first time. I had to get a multimeter with a diode setting. It's simply mandatory for a 6100 rebuild.
I'll be burning the midnight oil (and hopefully no more fuses) with you brother.
First rebuild: I did the Zanen kit + extra parts + LV2000, tested the deflection board and got my good +-26v voltages. I connected everything back into the monitor and powered up the whole thing to the beautiful glow of F100 and F101 blowing.
Pulling all boards out again, I see something ran amuck and smoked most of all my work.
I found a complete short to ground on the BU204 bottlecap transistor to the HV cage frame, although I don't know if this happened before or after I powered up. That was the only transistor I failed to check for continuity to it's frame. Now I know to test all my diodes and transistors before powering up next time...
If it doesn't work this time, it's going off to Chad. I don't have time to dick with it anymore. Just do your diode tests on all your diodes and transistors. They should read voltage one way (.5-.6v) and (oF) the other way. Same thing with the base-emitter test on a transistor. I had fried shit everywhere that I probably didn't realize the first time. I had to get a multimeter with a diode setting. It's simply mandatory for a 6100 rebuild.
I'll be burning the midnight oil (and hopefully no more fuses) with you brother.
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Thanks for the encouragement, no matter how depressing it was.
I found two of the diode to be bad when I pulled them off the board. If I can find them locally, I'll replace them tomorrow. I'll also take your advice and check the other components, though I think I found my bad ones.
I'll keep everyone updated. Off to bed.
I found two of the diode to be bad when I pulled them off the board. If I can find them locally, I'll replace them tomorrow. I'll also take your advice and check the other components, though I think I found my bad ones.
I'll keep everyone updated. Off to bed.
modessitt
Volunteer: Encyclopedia Submission Moderator
Why are you using 6.25-amp fuses? The four fuses on the chassis are 5A slo-blo fuses at F100 and F101, and 3A slo-blo fuses at F600 and F700. Using fuses that are rated too high means that you risk blowing up a part because the fuse didn't blow when it passed 5A....
I think it is suggested somewhere in one of the super-duper cap kit instructions. I'm not sure why they would recommend bumping up the fuse rating- that confused me too, so I stuck w/ the original values.
Also, the other two fuses are normal blow, according to the manual and the fact that mine haven't blown yet
Also, the other two fuses are normal blow, according to the manual and the fact that mine haven't blown yet
Mod,
That was an Atari upgrade. You can see the discrepancy in the schematics/parts list in the Tempest manual and the FAQ document. It's also on Bob's site:
"The diodes supplied in the Additional Parts Kit are 6A2 or higher, or equivalent, depending on what is available at any given time. The 6 amp diodes are what you might refer to as an upgrade as they are able to handle a higher amperage."
I replaced my D100-103 with 6A2's and the fuses are 6.25a slo-blo. Next test is still pending. Still replacing blown parts.
p.s. Shirkle, I apologize for the thread-jack, but I felt my post was relevant. I have my own thread regarding this, maybe we can just mash them up since we're in the same boat.
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modessitt
Volunteer: Encyclopedia Submission Moderator
Well, I've rebuilt lots of 6100's and never needed to bump up the fuse rating to make them work perfectly.
As for the next step, take off your LV2000 or V6100 and try again. it might have gone bad when the diodes were bad...
As for the next step, take off your LV2000 or V6100 and try again. it might have gone bad when the diodes were bad...
modessitt
Volunteer: Encyclopedia Submission Moderator
Check every single diode and transistor on the board.
Also, does your 6100 have a small board attached to the backside of the deflection board?
Also, does your 6100 have a small board attached to the backside of the deflection board?
No, it does not have a small board on the back.
I'm checking everything now. A could of zener diodes are questionable. All of the transistors and regular diodes seem to check out ok. I might just go and replace all of them at once, seems easier than this!
I'm checking everything now. A could of zener diodes are questionable. All of the transistors and regular diodes seem to check out ok. I might just go and replace all of them at once, seems easier than this!
Update!
Ok, I replaced the diodes again, this time with I used what Scott recommended instead of the 1n4007s I was using before. I also replaced a few caps and a few resisters. I also went through an put the mica insulators on all the frame transistors. Somehow I overlooked that only about 1/2 of the had them. They were shorting.
Anyway, I can now power it on without blowing the two fuses. However, I still have no picture. The two LEDs on the LV2000 are on, and the spot killer LED is not. It still plays blind.
So, where do we go from here.
Also, I just check voltages at P900 pins 1 & 8 and P100 pins 4 & 5. Only pin 4 on P100 was close to 26V.
Ok, I replaced the diodes again, this time with I used what Scott recommended instead of the 1n4007s I was using before. I also replaced a few caps and a few resisters. I also went through an put the mica insulators on all the frame transistors. Somehow I overlooked that only about 1/2 of the had them. They were shorting.
Anyway, I can now power it on without blowing the two fuses. However, I still have no picture. The two LEDs on the LV2000 are on, and the spot killer LED is not. It still plays blind.
So, where do we go from here.
Also, I just check voltages at P900 pins 1 & 8 and P100 pins 4 & 5. Only pin 4 on P100 was close to 26V.
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It sounds to me like you have a bad diode on your LV2000. I had one short out on me when I was blowing fuses. You need to remove one leg of each diode to do a proper diode test. I replaced it with a 1N4007.
Also, it could be one of the resistors that controls the adjustment pin on the LM337 that generates your -26V has gone out of spec. I have a LV2000 v1.5 which uses through-hole components, which is much easier to repair. V2.0 is all SMD.
How far off was your -26v on P100 pin 5? Did you check to see if you have +180V at pin 5 of P900?
Start going thru the Troubleshooting section of the 6100 FAQ document on page 19...
Also, it could be one of the resistors that controls the adjustment pin on the LM337 that generates your -26V has gone out of spec. I have a LV2000 v1.5 which uses through-hole components, which is much easier to repair. V2.0 is all SMD.
How far off was your -26v on P100 pin 5? Did you check to see if you have +180V at pin 5 of P900?
Start going thru the Troubleshooting section of the 6100 FAQ document on page 19...
The 26v on pin 5 wasn't even close. I don't remember what it was, but it was less than 5v, I think.
Oddly, I think the 180v were reading too high, more like 220. I'll check those again tomorrow. I'll try replacing some of those other components tomorrow as well.
Luckily, I have both versions of the LV2000. So if it needs repaired, I'll use the easier to repair one from now on.
I wish I could work on it more tonight, but the game is on its back because I am doing some minor cabinet repairs.
Oddly, I think the 180v were reading too high, more like 220. I'll check those again tomorrow. I'll try replacing some of those other components tomorrow as well.
Luckily, I have both versions of the LV2000. So if it needs repaired, I'll use the easier to repair one from now on.
I wish I could work on it more tonight, but the game is on its back because I am doing some minor cabinet repairs.
OK, Scott....upon reading that it occurred to me that I might have made a stupid mistake. I didn't pre-adjust the pot before installing it. I completely forgot. I wonder if that blew something on the HV board.
I hope you're not talking about R918...
I am. The only pot that's included in the cap kit....the one dead center in the HV board. Yeah.
So, I may be in for another kit. I'm going to be testing a lot of parts today. Luckily, I have almost a whole Zanen kit left over.
So, I may be in for another kit. I'm going to be testing a lot of parts today. Luckily, I have almost a whole Zanen kit left over.
Yeesh. I was hoping you were talking about the trimpots on the LV2000. I read somewhere not to install R918 unless you absolutely need to because that controls the flyback voltage.
Pre-adjusting the pot only gets you to the range that won't cause damage to the monitor when you first power it up. From there, you need a high-voltage probe to monitor the voltage at the anode and then further adjust R918 from that point, which should be around 19.5KV for the 6100.
Hopefully you have a high-voltage probe??
You might still be ok. I would still check your LV2000 for a bad diode. Pre-adjust R918 and try again.
Pre-adjusting the pot only gets you to the range that won't cause damage to the monitor when you first power it up. From there, you need a high-voltage probe to monitor the voltage at the anode and then further adjust R918 from that point, which should be around 19.5KV for the 6100.
Hopefully you have a high-voltage probe??
You might still be ok. I would still check your LV2000 for a bad diode. Pre-adjust R918 and try again.
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So...I'm a little stuck then. I actually went ahead and did the get well kit on the HV board and then adjusted the 918 pot to the safe value.
I have no way of adjusting it to 19.5kv without a voltage probe, though, huh?
I'm checking all of my voltages again now and here's where I'm at: At fuses 100 and 101, I have a steady 24 or 25 volts. At all of the pins I listed earlier, I'm not even close to the voltages I should be getting. The closest was that pin 5 on p100 which measured 19.6vac. The HV pins were basically not registering.
I have no way of adjusting it to 19.5kv without a voltage probe, though, huh?
I'm checking all of my voltages again now and here's where I'm at: At fuses 100 and 101, I have a steady 24 or 25 volts. At all of the pins I listed earlier, I'm not even close to the voltages I should be getting. The closest was that pin 5 on p100 which measured 19.6vac. The HV pins were basically not registering.
