Tempest Assistance needed

^^ when fixing vectors, no one will EVER convince me that a scope is not more useful in monitoring the vector/analog output than any other tool.

Whatever ... like other RGVAC old timers, time for me to move along ...
 
I thought x and y out should measure between 2 and 5 VAC and the z out should average around 2.5VDC. The z out never goes negative. If you have those voltages and an image on the scope, your logic board is golden. Try poking around the bottlecap connections with a wooden chopstick and see if the monitor burn protection circuit (led) shuts off.
 
Q602 isn't turning on. All bottle cap transistors are good. No voltage at the base and Q604 tests good.

When looking at the 6100 schematics, specifically the "Y" section, all of the upper half of the depicted voltages are present, but the lower half all the way back to Q2 are missing the voltages. All components in that section test good. Input???
 
- How are you testing the bottlecaps?

- Do you have an LV2000 low voltage replacement board installed?

- Is the spot killer LED lit or off?


Reflow solder on all header pin connectors on the delfection board, and test all transistors and diodes on the deflection board without removing them. Then unplug the HV cage's 8-pin connector, and try powering up without the HV cage, just the deflection and neck boards.

Is the spot killer LED lit now?
 
Tomorrow I'm going to hook the scope up to the x and y inputs at the monitor and see if it still works. I suspect something funky is going on with the y input at the monitor.
 
- How are you testing the bottlecaps?

- Do you have an LV2000 low voltage replacement board installed?

- Is the spot killer LED lit or off?


Reflow solder on all header pin connectors on the delfection board, and test all transistors and diodes on the deflection board without removing them. Then unplug the HV cage's 8-pin connector, and try powering up without the HV cage, just the deflection and neck boards.

Is the spot killer LED lit now?

I was wrong last night, NEITHER Q606 or Q706 are turning on. I missed testing Q706.
I have tested the bottle caps off the board, and once on the board I have grounded the negative lead of the MM and place the positive on the case. All other caps have the suggested voltages. I have replace C600 and C700. I have tested all resistors, diodes, and transistors. I have replaced the low power section with the LV2000. The Spot killer LED is still on.
I have verified connections from the CPU board to the monitor.

The only thing I haven't been through other than a cap kie is the neck PCB.
Neither of the connectors are connected to the HV cage.

I can play the game on my Scope and X and Y out are at tolerable ranges.

Thoughts?
 
I was wrong last night, NEITHER Q606 or Q706 are turning on. I missed testing Q706.
I have tested the bottle caps off the board, and once on the board I have grounded the negative lead of the MM and place the positive on the case. All other caps have the suggested voltages. I have replace C600 and C700. I have tested all resistors, diodes, and transistors. I have replaced the low power section with the LV2000. The Spot killer LED is still on.
I have verified connections from the CPU board to the monitor.

The only thing I haven't been through other than a cap kie is the neck PCB.
Neither of the connectors are connected to the HV cage.

I can play the game on my Scope and X and Y out are at tolerable ranges.

Thoughts?


If you have done all you say, then you are missing something. FYI, the neck PCB isn't going to make the deflection board not work (and you can try unplugging it, just for kicks if you want to confirm that.) And there's only one cap on the neck board, and it really doesn't go bad anyway, so it's not a critical one. But check the following and report back:

- Do you have the three 1-pin wires that go from the deflection board to the neck board connected correctly?

- Are you hearing any chatter in the yoke at all when it's running?

- How are you testing the bottlecaps off of the board? (Be specific)

- How are you testing the transistors on the board? (Be specific)

- What are you measuring for output voltages of the LV2000? (Post the values)


You most likely either have a bad transistor on the board, or a cracked connection somewhere, or have made an error in your work. Question all of your work and assumptions, as you are likely incorrect in something you are considering to be true.
 
- Do you have the three 1-pin wires that go from the deflection board to the neck board connected correctly? YES

- Are you hearing any chatter in the yoke at all when it's running? No

- How are you testing the bottlecaps off of the board? (Be specific) In Diode Test mode, Negative lead is the first mentioned positive is the second (Q706 and Q606):
E-C = nothing
E-B = .574
C-E = nothing
C-B = nothing
B-E = .574
B-C = .574

- How are you testing the transistors on the board? (Be specific) Negative lead to ground, positive to the Collector/case
Q605 =25.2
Q606 = 0
Q705 = 25.25
Q706 = 0
Q102 =34.76
Q103(tested at purple wire (J100) = -34.9

- What are you measuring for output voltages of the LV2000? (Post the values)
+Vout1=25.9
-Vout = -34.8
 
- Do you have the three 1-pin wires that go from the deflection board to the neck board connected correctly? YES

- Are you hearing any chatter in the yoke at all when it's running? No

- How are you testing the bottlecaps off of the board? (Be specific) In Diode Test mode, Negative lead is the first mentioned positive is the second (Q706 and Q606):
E-C = nothing
E-B = .574
C-E = nothing
C-B = nothing
B-E = .574
B-C = .574

- How are you testing the transistors on the board? (Be specific) Negative lead to ground, positive to the Collector/case
Q605 =25.2
Q606 = 0
Q705 = 25.25
Q706 = 0
Q102 =34.76
Q103(tested at purple wire (J100) = -34.9

- What are you measuring for output voltages of the LV2000? (Post the values)
+Vout1=25.9
-Vout = -34.8



You need to test the transistors on the board using the same diode test method as you do the frame transistors (B-E, B-C, and the reverse directions, as well as C-B.) For B-E and B-C, you should get two voltage drops in one direction, and zero or one drop in the reverse direction. There should also be no short between C-B.

Also, if you are getting -34.8V on the LV2000, something is wrong there, as you should be getting +26 to +28V on the +out, and -26 to -28V on the -out. You may have a bad LV2000, or there may be a short elsewhere on the board, as that output shouldn't be -34.8. Disconnect the outputs of the LV2000, and see if the negative one is still measuring too high, in which case the LV2000 is bad.
 
Pulled the deflection board to inspect LV2000.
Decided to check Q103 again because there was 0 volts on the Base.

Q103 was bad. I now have chatter and spot killer off.

Is it safe to plug in the HV cage?
 
Pulled the deflection board to inspect LV2000.
Decided to check Q103 again because there was 0 volts on the Base.

Q103 was bad. I now have chatter and spot killer off.

Is it safe to plug in the HV cage?


Are your LV2000 output voltages back in check? Only plug in the HV if they are ok, else you'll blow the HV.

You should also check all bottlecaps again, using the procedure in my guide, as the above values you posted actually aren't right. (If B-E is 0.574V, then E-B should be open, not 0.574).
 
LV2000 is back in check.

I will re-check all bottlecaps. If I can't get to it tonight, it will likely be a few days. Thank you for your help. I am not afraid to re-check my work or admit if I overlooked something.

I also now understand the Q103 supplies voltages for Q606 and Q706, which is good to know if those two ever don't come on together.

I will post my findings
 
OK, Im back at it. I haven't gotten around to rechecking the bottle caps yet, because the smoked resistor at 912 in the HV cage has me troubleshooting that.
Per the WG6100 FAQ's I have checked the usual suspects. What I am curious about is the pot. I removed it and would like to verify it is preset. According to the FAQ's it should be adjusted to 5.5K on the "upper 2 contacts. That orientation doesn't make sense to me. Can someone elaborate.

I completely understand Pots, and don't need an explanation on how they work or anything like that. The physical orientation of the contacts doesn't make sense. the upper 2 contacts are the main leads if you will. So it has to be measured from one of the main leads to either of the back 2.
 
The orientation of the monitor puts the 2 contacts as the "upper" contacts but those are a fixed value if the total resistance.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_20180517_191904457_BURST001.jpg
    IMG_20180517_191904457_BURST001.jpg
    498.7 KB · Views: 8
In a normally functioning cage, the pot is set to around 2:00, if you are looking down at the cage with the flyback on the upper right. (So the slot in the pot is almost pointing at the flyback, or a little past it.)

I've rebuilt hundreds of them, and they are always in the same spot. (So much so that I can eyeball them when I rebuild the cages, and I'm usually within 1kV when I actually go to measure the HV.)

You can also set the B+ voltage on the neck to around 180V, and that will get you close as well. But to properly set it, you should have an HV probe.

You should also replace the HV pot, as they are always heat damaged, and many of them just disintegrate when you remove them. Even if it's still intact, it's worth replacing.
 
Where you have it in that pic is good.

I don't have a HV probe but if I can check it at the ncekboard I will. My question is, if the pot was previously misadjusted, would that cause 912 to smoke, because it the voltage was set too high? all other recommended components check out.
 
I don't have a HV probe but if I can check it at the ncekboard I will. My question is, if the pot was previously misadjusted, would that cause 912 to smoke, because it the voltage was set too high? all other recommended components check out.


No. R912 smoking is odd, and not normal. Not sure offhand what would cause that, but looking at the schematics it could be the flyback, D901, ZD902, or possibly other things, so it's hard to know for sure.

Usually it's best to just rebuild the entire cage, replacing all caps, all zeners, all burned resistors, and anything else that tests bad. The fly is only typically bad if it has a melted spot on the side of it, which is not common.
 
Back
Top Bottom