Temp bans and warnings...

[admin]

Another round of temp bans and warnings are here after reviewing a lot of abusive postings from the last month. It's the end result of a lot of people's inappropriate behavior and a lot of moderator time and energy to review and discuss appropriate actions on same.

There are a few temp bans, and a lot of warnings. There are about 30 users in need of warnings and probably 1/3 of those will actually get them.

The rest, more 'minor offenses' are simply warned here: Please don't attack and abuse others regardless of how deserving they are (this includes both posts and PMs). Respect the users and moderators.

Those with temp bans are all being warned within the next hour. Those with temp bans are being given the opportunity to finish up any outstanding matters on the forums today and the bans will begin tomorrow (provided they behave today). The longest is for several months.

* It is not acceptable for anyone on the temp ban list to abuse other users or mods today. [If you get abuse from one of them today, please let us know.]

* It is also not acceptable to take any shots (deserved or not) at anyone on the ban list.

 

[Oryk Zinyo]

Are we going to see a temp ban list so we can inform you of any abuses or shots?

 

[admin]

Your question #1 (temp ban list):

We are not publishing a list of users with bans of two weeks or less this time for a variety of reasons, but people on the list are free to out themselves if they want. We will discuss issues with these users individually, and its likely that most third-parties won't even notice these.

Note that ban duration is based on a number of factors including the perception of the actual behavior as well as the level of warnings or temp bans the user has received previously.

Anyone with a ban of longer than a week are likely to have shown a highly repetitive history of attacks and ignoring warnings about smae, and thus it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. We will note here HudsonArcade's absence in particular simply because of his strong presence on these forums and the duration of the ban will make it impossible for the ban to go unnoticed. Thus, we would rather mention it before it becomes the topic of other posts.

#2) Your question #2 (reporting abuse):

Inappropriate attacks can be reported regardless of whether the originator is on the ban list or not. Either way, such attacks are inappropriate.

 

[Oryk Zinyo]

We are not publishing a list of users with bans of two weeks or less this time for a variety of reasons, but people on the list are free to out themselves if they want. We will discuss issues with these users individually, and its likely that most third-parties won't even notice these.

So, there is to be a follow-on list of bans that exceed two weeks, or is Mark the only one? Will this list, if published, be stickied?

 

[FrizzleFried]

I sure hope some of the INSTIGATORS are being banned as well... one in particular seems to constantly poke at Mark (as an example).

It also would be nice if moderators/administrators moderated hourly/daily rather than wait months then hand down bans to multiple people for things said days or weeks ago.

 

[Tombo]

I see your point Frizz about the instigators and wholeheartedly agree.

Tom

 

[savit4l8r]

I sure hope some of the INSTIGATORS are being banned as well...

Lobbying to ban yourself? How odd...

 

[admin]

I sure hope some of the INSTIGATORS are being banned as well... one in particular seems to constantly poke at Mark (as an example).

Most importantly, the actions of other people are NOT an excuse for one's owns actions, be it abusive posts or simple 'FU/FO' PMs. Instigation as an excuse would also lead to the obvious problem that perspective is involved. I could easily pick a few people that bicker on this forum and I'm sure all of them would consider themselves the response, not the instigation.

And just because a cop doesn't see someone blow through a red light doesn't mean the next person who does it shouldn't get a ticket.

When one person is the subject of the majority of reported posts -AND- the source of the majority reported posts on the forum -AND- the largest contributor to the wasting of moderator time wasted and stress it's all going to result in some action.

Please not that we do look at reported posts, not only the reported posts themselves, but also the posts before it in the same thread.

Also, not everything posted likely gets seen by the moderators. You can always use the 'report post' button or PM at the time or after the fact if you think something (or someone) was missed.

People that in the past are well known to bicker with him don't seem to be the ones he has been fighting with him this month. Also, we were actually surprised at the relatively low level of instigation vs. extremely hostile responses this month compared to the past. Also, outside of the '2 1/2 year pcb' thread, there wasn't as much instigation as expected by the response, yet the attacks and lack of respect spanned many threads (and pm) this year.

Don't get us wrong, instigation isn't acceptable, period.

It also would be nice if moderators/administrators moderated hourly/daily rather than wait months then hand down bans to multiple people for things said days or weeks ago.

Agreed, timeliness is a great goal, though apparently an ellusive one. Additionally, we would love to try and delete all questionable posts before they lead to further and increased levels of nastiness. Why we strive to do better and better at this, there will always be limits to how close to perfection we can get. It's a volunteer-moderated forum, and ever increasing posting volume along with the sheer number of reported posts make it a challenge to keep up with everything. If everyone paid into a moderator fund it would be easier to manage though that's not what kind of forum this is (nor do I think that users are looking to pay for moderation).

There is also the boiling frog effect going on. We could react to tons of posts that OPs think are innocent and get everyone unhappy here, or we can avoid trying to sanitize these forums to a 4th grade safe level. Unfortunately, it seems no matter how many times we ask people to play nice the heat around here rises until we act.

Also, the statute of limitations isn't minutes here, and posts made days or weeks ago still caused disruption, users responses, wasted moderator time, frustration from other users, and user demands for stronger moderation. Damage done doesn't just disappear when the sun goes down.

 

[FrizzleFried]

Lobbying to ban yourself? How odd...

I'm a reformed instigator...

10-step.

It works.

 

[norton9478]

I hope you guys don't ban anyone for making a dramatic video presentation of other people's words.

 

[Spyridon]

I really think posting a list of people that are banned and for how long will be helpful. Otherwise you'll see the "Do not do business with xxxx" threads because a banned user hasn't gotten back to someone on a deal they had going.

 

[FrizzleFried]

Instead of temp bans, we need MANDATORY IGNORES. Any way to automatically set it so one user is set to "ignore" another? I mean, kicking people out of here does nothing (as you've seen)... but making that person IGNORE another and the other person IGNORE the first, that seems like it would go a long way to helping this issues here.

BANS should be left to people screwing with the whole community. These "temp bans" are stupid... and do nothing to rectify the drama here... and posting these little "ban updates" do the exact opposite...they ADD drama.

Time to think outside the box.

 

[nomore25s]

Instead of temp bans, we need MANDATORY IGNORES. Any way to automatically set it so one user is set to "ignore" another? I mean, kicking people out of here does nothing (as you've seen)... but making that person IGNORE another and the other person IGNORE the first, that seems like it would go a long way to helping this issues here.

BANS should be left to people screwing with the whole community. These "temp bans" are stupid... and do nothing to rectify the drama here... and posting these little "ban updates" do the exact opposite...they ADD drama.

Time to think outside the box.

Frizz - I've not seen forum software that allows a "ignore any followups" option. So as soon as someone hits reply to someone on your "ignore" list, you'll see it. By "forcing" someone to ignore it, they'll just create a 2nd account to post, therefore defeating the ban (insert funny comment here).

 

[mclemore]

Mark is the only one that met the threshhold at this time (ban > 2 weeks), though warnings and temp bans are tracked on an individual basis and there are a number of people that we would likely have less patience with in the future.

This thread is stickied now. Once about 90% of the regulars have had the chance to read it it will be 'unstickied'.

Most importantly, the actions of other people are NOT an excuse for one's owns actions, be it abusive posts or simple 'FU/FO' PMs.

THIS IS KEY. I'm personally really tired of people trying to use the actions of others as an excuse for their own behavior. People are responsible for their own behavior, period.

Instigation: Attacks, hostility, and instigation doesn't have to be as transparent as Mark's to be problematic. Just because you are seemingly polite and considerably more strategic doesn't make it better. 'Who Innocent Ole Me?' attacks and setups get old quickly too.

In fact an 'instigator' got a nice temp ban today that was possibly increased by his actions after this thread got started today.

I'd actually like to encourage the moderators to be less shy about temp bans as I think it would help keep the pot from boiling over here.

 

[mclemore]

Frizzle, re: mandatory ignores, I think I and the mods disagree with you here. Part of the point of moderators is to keep things from overheating and also to save people from this stuff. Just think of a temp ban as a global "mandatory ignore" in which we've taken the liberty to add a user to everyone's ignore list for a period of time.

Also, the problem with ignores it that is starts to mess up the context of threads for people reading them.

Overall, the forums are more civil than they used to be, and the temp bans are about the only reason why.

---

Spyridon, RE: miscommunication due to people being banned.

This shouldn't be a problem for a variety of reasons, including most if not all people with temp bans are getting a time delay until tomorrow until the ban takes effect. Also, one can try sending a PM to a member and if they are banned I don't think the system lets you send one.

 

[mclemore]

Less passionate? Forum traffic and volume have measurably risen.
And yes, we can agree to disagree.

 

[metahugh]

I hope you guys don't ban anyone for making a dramatic video presentation of other people's words.

Don't know if a ban is in order for that type of stuff but it certainly doesn't help the situation. Now if one of those "videos" causes a problem then the poster should be warned IMHO.

 

[norton9478]

Instead of temp bans, we need MANDATORY IGNORES. Any way to automatically set it so one user is set to "ignore" another? I mean, kicking people out of here does nothing (as you've seen)... but making that person IGNORE another and the other person IGNORE the first, that seems like it would go a long way to helping this issues here.

There is an option to "ghost" somebody.

Basically, it makes that user and his/her posts only viewable to that user (and the mods).

There is absolutely no trace of said user viewable to everybody else. The only way you can tell that someone in a thread is ghosted is because there will be missing posts (if you watch the post number).

Anyways, it's a fun/cruel/effective trick. If you don't tell the user, they will often go on like Bruce Willis in the sixth sense. Sometimes, it takes a long time before the user realizes that they nobody is actually responding to their posts.

They've done it a handful of times over at NG.com...

 

[Arcadenut]

Instead of temp bans, we need MANDATORY IGNORES. Any way to automatically set it so one user is set to "ignore" another? I mean, kicking people out of here does nothing (as you've seen)... but making that person IGNORE another and the other person IGNORE the first, that seems like it would go a long way to helping this issues here.

BANS should be left to people screwing with the whole community. These "temp bans" are stupid... and do nothing to rectify the drama here... and posting these little "ban updates" do the exact opposite...they ADD drama.

Time to think outside the box.

Ignore doesn't work if the person being ignored gets quoted by another user.

 

[Mindl3ss]

Am I misinformed to assume that all this has pretty much sprung from one post in the feedback section?

That's pretty crazy.