System 11b A/C select test?

Angry_Radish

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I'm still hunting down my PF and Backbox GI trouble and in stepping through the solenoid tests (I was running through the flashers), when it comes across the A/C select test nothing happens.

Should I see anything?
I understand the a/c toggles the output of a transistor between 2 destinations, and the remainder of the solenoids and flashers seem to work now after changing out 1 bad transistor but I'm a little fuzzy on what should happen on the A/C select test.

Can anyone with an 11b confirm if this is normal?

Thanks!
 
I'm working on my Cyclone, replaced Q16 tonight and now all the flashers work except for the spin mystery wheel flasher.
The entire left side PF GI lights are still inop as well as the backbox GI.

Everything in the self-test works as it should except for the spin mwheel flasher, left GI, box GI, and possibly the A/C select?

In reading the 3m repair guide for system11 I saw his quick and dirty test for the drive transistors (continuity test for shorts by 1 lead on the ground strap and touching the other lead to the metal heatsync on the drive transistors with the idea being if you have continuity the transistor is bad) which is what lead me to q16. I'm not sure if that test only applies to those transistors or all of them on the board though because if I do the same method of testing, then Q69 and Q71 are bad as well and that doesn't make sense when I'm looking at the schematics...
 
Looking at the other thread, Elutz gave you the answer for the GI problem. You need to replace the GI header/s and connector/s in order to fix the GI.

I would have to take a closer look at the scat to be more specific.
 
Yup, I'm still rooting through that post, the board and pins (all of the boards and pins for that matter) are immaculate so no smoking gun at the moment. I was hoping I was on to something with that A/C thing :)
 
Yup, I'm still rooting through that post, the board and pins (all of the boards and pins for that matter) are immaculate so no smoking gun at the moment. I was hoping I was on to something with that A/C thing :)

When the test comes to the A/C relay test....all that will happen is the relay will open and close. You won't see anything, per say......but you should hear the relay "click" as it opens and closes.

As for the GI...did you test the fuses on the interface board? They should be pulled and tested.

Edward
 
I tested all the fuses out of circuit, all good I'm afraid.

I hope to have time tonight to follow the wires from end to end with my meter.

I don't recall hearing the A/C relay clicking but I'll double check tonight as well.
 
Generally speaking, you may have to have the head open and be standing fairly close to the realy to hear it if you are damn near deaf like me.

You may have a bad GI relay or relay board. There should be one on the back of the insert and one on the bottom of the playfield. Swap them and see if the GI lighting changes. (The whole little relay board, not just the relay) There is only about 5 or 6 components on these relay boards and they are very easy to fix.
 
I had everything open when testing and heard the GI relay, but not the A/C though...
No joy on the relay board either, I swapped them previously with no change in symptoms :(
 
Check for the GI voltage at the connector coming into the GI relay board. This will tell you if the voltage is getting to the relay board, or if it is getting lost further back.
 
Woohoo! All good from the lights to the board, pulled the board and there were some pins barely held in with terrible cold solder joints.
Looks perfect from topside, no evidence of arcing or burnt anything. Resoldered the pins and bam, lighting is good to go!

The only odd things remaining...
1) The right ferris bonus flasher doesn't work, possibly a bad socket, I haven't had time to put a meter to it.

2) In self test at the backbox GI lighting test I can hear the relay clicking but the lights stay on constantly.

Other than that it's good!
All that is left is the continuation of getting high on acetone removing the mylar adhesive and cleaning/waxing
 
The only odd things remaining...
1) The right ferris bonus flasher doesn't work, possibly a bad socket, I haven't had time to put a meter to it.

2) In self test at the backbox GI lighting test I can hear the relay clicking but the lights stay on constantly.

Number 2 is normal, and yes it is a relay clicking back and forth between A/C sides of the relay.

Can't speak to number 1 as I haven't reviewed the scat.
 
Number 2 is normal, and yes it is a relay clicking back and forth between A/C sides of the relay.

Actually, maybe not normal.

Most Sys 11 games used two GI relays. One under the PF for PF GI, and one in the head for backglass GI (usually mounted to the back of the light panel).

These relays were mounted to a small circuit board and, just like the GI connectors elsewhere in these machines and other pins, were prone to burning the connections up. Often when the connectors at the relay boards burnt the quick fix was just to jumper the relay board in some manner to bypass it allowing the GI to work. The only drawback was that the GI remained on at all times, which with most titles wasn't a big deal at all, so it they usually never got "fixed" properly.

If your GI is controlled or not will all depend on the game title, but if you do have controlled GI, look for the relay board and carefully inspect it and the wiring for jumpers, bypasses or any other "hacks".

D
 
Thanks for the replies guys, I really appreciate all the help that has come my way on this thing.

After finding the crappy solder joints on the back of that board I'm going to make an effort this weekend to pull all the boards and have a close look at them if only to know the starting condition of everything.

Now that I have back-box and PF GI I'm satisfied if this is as good as I can get it (Other than that PF light, that still needs fixing), I need to get back to cleaning the play-field and re-assembling to I can play this damn thing! :)
 
The only odd things remaining...
1) The right ferris bonus flasher doesn't work, possibly a bad socket, I haven't had time to put a meter to it.

Interesting thing that I found is that since there are typically two bulbs on each flasher circuit, they need to be the same resistance. I had an older GE and a newer Eico on the same circuit and only one bulb would flash. When I replaced both to newer Eicos, they both flashed. The GE was a good bulb, but the cold resistance of the filament was 9 ohms, and the resistance of the Eico was 5 Ohms. As a result, only the Eico lit, but they were both good. Once I swapped out all of the bulbs to new ones, they all flashed fine.

You might want to check this before you dig into this too deep.

Mike
 
I was thinking the same thing initially and replaced both with tested good new Eico's, no joy.
I don't think they are on the same circuit anyway as they are individually addressed in test and supposedly come on independently.

Interesting thing that I found is that since there are typically two bulbs on each flasher circuit, they need to be the same resistance. I had an older GE and a newer Eico on the same circuit and only one bulb would flash. When I replaced both to newer Eicos, they both flashed. The GE was a good bulb, but the cold resistance of the filament was 9 ohms, and the resistance of the Eico was 5 Ohms. As a result, only the Eico lit, but they were both good. Once I swapped out all of the bulbs to new ones, they all flashed fine.

You might want to check this before you dig into this too deep.

Mike
 
I was thinking the same thing initially and replaced both with tested good new Eico's, no joy.
I don't think they are on the same circuit anyway as they are individually addressed in test and supposedly come on independently.

Check the manual on page 28. It lists the flashlamp locations. (p) indicates playfield location, and (b) indicates backbox location. It looks to me that the Ferris flashers are on the same circuit, 06C.
 
Z, in "test" this is normal.

Dokert, I think you're confusing the two relays...

In test mode a GI relay will "click" and pulse the GI lights it controls...

Now, the A/C relay will only "click".

Angry Radish said he can hear the GI relay click....but his lights never pulse...they stay on. That's not correct, the lights should pulse with the relay.

Edward
 
Dokert, I think you're confusing the two relays...

In test mode a GI relay will "click" and pulse the GI lights it controls...

Now, the A/C relay will only "click".

Angry Radish said he can hear the GI relay click....but his lights never pulse...they stay on. That's not correct, the lights should pulse with the relay.

Edward

Yes, this is exactly what I was trying to say. Sorry if there was any confusion.
 
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