System 1 Cleopatra - Left flipper dead, outhole...

vbtalent

Member
Joined
Dec 24, 2009
Messages
259
Reaction score
1
Location
Kentucky
So I replaced the lower bumper contact switches on both sides of the play field last night, checked the wiring and fired up the game. The bumpers work great but now the left flipper is dead and the game won't tally up points when the ball drains, argh!!!

Where's the common thread here? are the lower bumpers tied into the flippers somehow...?

I think she's getting temperamental.

VB,
 
Seems like she's been temperamental!

I think the only common thread is the fact you lifted the playfield and messed in the same general area. Sure you didn't knock something loose under there?

There's no direct electrical interaction between the bumper and the flipper - if there was, probably neither of them would work.

I'd just troubleshoot the flipper as usual - power to coil, solder connections/wires, cabinet switch, etc. etc.
 
Thanks for the posts guys.

The left flipper turned out to have a poorly soldered wire on the right lower bumper all is good now with the flipper.

However the out hole is still being a pest.

When in test the out hole coil fires (100% sure), when I start a new game the ball is ejected, but when the ball drains it doesn't tally points and it sits and waits.

So I assume the transistor Q32 is good, so for kicks I try to test the transistor by applying 5v to the base during game play and it doesn't fire?

Now, all was good until I started mucking around with the lower bumpers. I triple checked the soldered wires and all are firmly attached. Common sense says the outhole problem is tied somehow to the bumpers but I don't see it, I'm stumped..

VB,
 
Thanks for the posts guys.

When in test the out hole coil fires (100% sure), when I start a new game the ball is ejected, but when the ball drains it doesn't tally points and it sits and waits.

VB,

Check / replace the PROM on the Control Board. If I remember correctly, test mode doesn't go through the prom. Each Sys 1 game had its own PROM but some were common across machines. Must have the same letter on it, like "A", "B", "C", etc.. So if yours is a "B", you must replace it with a "B".

Hope that helps.
 
Thanks for the posts guys.

The left flipper turned out to have a poorly soldered wire on the right lower bumper all is good now with the flipper.

However the out hole is still being a pest.

When in test the out hole coil fires (100% sure), when I start a new game the ball is ejected, but when the ball drains it doesn't tally points and it sits and waits.

So I assume the transistor Q32 is good, so for kicks I try to test the transistor by applying 5v to the base during game play and it doesn't fire?

Now, all was good until I started mucking around with the lower bumpers. I triple checked the soldered wires and all are firmly attached. Common sense says the outhole problem is tied somehow to the bumpers but I don't see it, I'm stumped..

VB,

Check to make sure that the switch that closes when the ball drains is actually closing. System1 games always kick the ball out at the start of a new game regardless of the drain hole switch being open or closed.
 
Could a grounded stuck on coil in the lower bumper area have caused a problem on the cpu or driver board related to the out hole?

I just can't get past the coincidence of working on the lower bumpers and the out hole doesn't work.

VB,
 
Strange enough I cleaned all the old solder from the lower bumpers and cut the existing wires to remove some corroded ends, desoldered and all is working fine, I don't get it.

I didn't realize the bumpers tied into the outhole and the flippers, maybe the grounds are common?

Does that repair make sense to anyone else?

VB,
 
I'm not one to argue with success (nor do I have enough knowledge to do so...).

I don't have a manual in front of me, but I suppose it is possible the bumper and the outhole switch are on the same line in the switch matrix. If the outhole is downline from the bumper switch, you may have resolved the outhole switch issue by rewiring the bumper switch. If you really want to see if your fix was "logical", check that out.

Hopefully the fix will stick for you. But if it doesn't, I'd strongly consider the possibility that you have a loose wire somewhere on the outhole switch circuit. The physical act of lifting the playfield and moving it around may be causing this circuit to behave erratically.
 
...If the outhole is downline from the bumper switch, you may have resolved the outhole switch issue by rewiring the bumper switch. If you really want to see if your fix was "logical", check that out...

Is the switch matrix wiring in the manual that would show the outhole wiring and the lower bumpers?
 
Last edited:
Yes, it's labeled as such on the bottom right corner of the page.

Unfortunately, I realized I gave you some bum advice, which I just confirmed by looking at my Pinball Pool manual. The outhole switch is a direct wire to connector A1J7 and isn't a part of the switch matrix.

So, back to the original point - still cannot see any correlation between your actions and your problem. Haven't you been fighting that outhole switch for a long time? What did you do last time to think you had resolved the problem?

With the game on, glass off, 1st ball drained (and no activity from the outhole for the 2nd ball)....if you stick your finger in the outhole and flick the ball back and forth a little bit (or more than a little bit) - getting any recognition from the switch? If not, lift the playfield and physically tug and manipulate all of the wires going to the switch, put it back down, see if that did anything. I assume the switch blades are visually making when the ball is in the trough, but have you put a DMM on them to check continuity in closed position?

Just brainstorming simple stuff, cuz I still think you have a physical problem with the switch or wiring.
 
Last edited:
Thanks for the posts guys.

So I assume the transistor Q32 is good, so for kicks I try to test the transistor by applying 5v to the base during game play and it doesn't fire?

VB,

Has the coil worked at all since you did that? I'm not an expert by any means - just learning at a rapid pace - but aren't you supposed to ground the tab of the transistor to test it? Instead of applying voltage to it?
 
Examiner, since the outhole doesn't run through the switch matrix which in turn controls the lower bumpers? I would agree that it seems something else is going on.

The only repair I made last night was to remove old solder and trim some corroded wire ends on the lower bumpers, then the outhole started working again.

Yes, the outhole has been acting strange for a bit, occasionally giving me problems. I replaced all the transistors on the control board after finding q32 was bad. After that all seemed to be good until replacing the lower bumper contacts...

As for applying voltage to the transistor that was suggested to me by another pin repair guy with some years of experience, I am also learning but it seemed to do the job.

Just to set the story straight, everything seems to be working perfectly. Its just unnerving to not be able to pin it down to why it quit and why it's working..

I'm hoping someone will read the thread and might be able to add the missing piece to the puzzle.

VB,
 
Back
Top Bottom