SWEP1 Neon help needed

caligirl

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Finally got around to replacing both chips associated with the neon, and it still does not work. I get 13.2v at the molex the neon transformer plugs into.
I will occasionally get a glow out of it during play, I am going to assume that this occurs when the voltage drops, as at times during play the neon is suppose to fluctuate in intensity.

A bit of history: When I bought the machine the neon was hard wired to the power supply. I replaced the powersupply awhile ago, and decided to work toward correcting the problem. I wired the neon back the way it is meant to be, but it still did not work. Then a few months ago I cleaned out the bottom of the cabinet, including a well needed cleaning to the power driver board. Reinstalled the board, and the neon worked great...for awhile. Then one day, it stopped working again. Voltage read 13.2v then, and still now, after replacing chips.

At a loss of wher to go from here. Thanks for any help.
 
Awe, grrr...never mind! Took one last look at the manual to see if I could make sense of anythig else...and I found the error.

Apparently the previous owner, and thus I follwed suit...plugged J102 into J101 on the driver board. When I was looking at the driver schematics I saw 'J102'. I had labeled the connector J101 when I first unplugged it to clean the board months ago, and thus retruned it to that . J101 is unused on SWEP1. Not sure how to explain its brief period of working, after cleaning the board, but doesnt matter now, because it works.
 
sounds like the neon tube is still working

ill bet the transformer is ok too. when they go bad they dont start working again

got to be whats powering the transformer is the problem

my only advice is to look at the schematic and trace down what controls the transformer

not familiar with that system. cant be more help
 
Worked fine for awhile. The problem has now returned. Neon does not work again.
Yes, tube is good. Transformer seems good when it it working. Getting 13.4v instead of 12v from driver board.
What I have discoverd is that I am getting the same 13.4v at other places I should be getting 12v (cabinet flipper switches, etc)

I am not versed enough on the cards, let alone driver cards, to know were to start looking at what might cause the 12v to run high.

Since AC runs into the card directly from the transformer, I would venture a guess that something that something is not converting the voltage properly. Diode? Resistor? Bridge rectifier?

There is a large resistor that is getting quite warm to the touch and while not directly against the board, the board is browning. Could this be the problem?

Again keep in mind, that at times it works briefly, then stops.
 
Try using a 12v bulb and hook it up... This way you can see if it's a problem with the HV Xformer... Just a thought..... maybe the xformer is working off and on, since you are getting voltage.

I used a neon kit from a "PC case mod" I found... it was 12 Volts.... the game would light it like normal, so I knew my xformer or neon bulb was bad.... lucky for me it was the xformer...

If thats the case.... I bought: "Neon Transformer 04-10947" $20ea.

http://mad-amusements.com/product.php?id_product=1053

Best price I could find anywhere.

-Mike
 
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90% sure the transformer and neon tube are good. Neon worked fine prior to me undoing the hack wiring job. Previous owner had hardwired the saber from a 12v output on the computer power supply, so neon always came on immediatly and stayed on constantly.
I will do a doulbe check when I try working on it again.

I have replaced both IC's associated with the neon. Previous owner had replaced one, as was obvious from a socket installed.

Again, my thoughts at this time are that the problem is due to high voltage coming from the driver board. Im getting 13.4v when I should get 12v. I see the 13.4v at the neon and at the flipper buttons. When the neon intermittantly works, it is getting 12v, but when it is not working it reads 13.4v.

Driver board is fed AC from the transformer. I just dont know enough about AC to DC conversion to know what to start looking for.
 
FYI unfortunately there is not a "proper" schematic in the manual for the driver board, or maybe i am an idiot and over looking it. Online searches thus far have come up empty as well. There are pages of flow charts but nothing that shows a path for the AC coming in, what components it flows through, and where it exits.
 
Problem: My SWE1's neon lamp is not working.

Answer: First check that 12 volts is present going *into* the neon lamp's transformer (is fuse 108 blown?) The neon transformer is mounted inside the black handle of the light saber. The easiest way is to check for 12 volts at the Molex connector going to the transformer (under the playfield), or at the power driver board connector J111 pin 9. If 12 volts is getting to the transformer, next make sure the return path to ground is being completed (this is handled by a MosFET transistor on power driver board). Ground the black wire on the Molex connector going to the neon transformer. Does the neon tube turn on? If not (is the neon tube itself damaged? very unlikely), the neon transformer itself is probably bad. If the neon does light when the black wire is grounded, then the MosFET transistor and/or the ULN2803 chip at U35 on the power driver board have most likely failed (or the wire going to the power driver board has broken.

If the 12 volts is present at the neon transformer, and grounding the black wire does not light the neon tube, then the neon transformer is probably at fault. The neon transformer takes 12 volts DC and converts it to a very high voltage (about 1500 volts, at low current). Because of this, to get the UL rating, Williams was required to rivit close a plastic case around the transformer! To access the transformer, the rivits will need to be drilled out with a 1/8" drill bit (or grind off the heads of the rivets). On SWE1, do not try and remove the decorative plastic "light saber handle" from half of the plastic transformer case! (they uses silicon to attach it, and it does not come off without destroying the decorative plastic!)

Once the rivits are removed, the transformer can be removed and checked. Is there any high voltage (1500 volts DC) being output? If your DMM does not go this high, just replace the transformer. The cheapest way is to buy a car neon license plate transformer. If needed, wire the automobile neon transformer under the PF (if it doesn't fit in the ramp housing), and run the high voltage wire up to the ramp and bulb. Note if you do this to be sure to use wire rated for at least 2000 Volts (it'll have thick insulation; look at the wire already on the bulb if you need some reference).

Specs for the original neon transformer are here. The original Williams SWE1 transformer (part number 04-10947) may also still be available. The original transformer for SWE1 (and Cirqus Voltaire) was a Ventex model VT12D5, but they seem to have changed their model numbers so now it's VT1510-12. A replacement is Ventex model NPS-12D5 and it fits and works fine. Key specs are input 12 volts DC at 0.6A, and output 1500V 5mA. You can find it at www.ventextech.com/lowv.htm. Note the output connector will need to be changed to a Molex connector. Another transformer source is www.sunsupply.com/transformers/winind.html.

Testing the neon tube itself, without using the high voltage transformer, and not that easy. There is no to test a neon tube with a DMM - basically the gas inside the tube conducts electricity. So basically a DMM can't generate a big enough voltage to test it. They make little inductive testers - the tube will glow when this thing is held near the neon tube, if the gas is still in there. Also try taking the neon under some high voltage power lines at night to see if it glows (and to scare yourself about how much energy is leaking out of them!)


I believe that I have a full schematic set, I will check for it.
 
Yes, PinWizard, if you have full schematics, particularly one for the driver board, it would be greatly appriciated.

AGAIN, Issue seems to be that the voltage coming from the driver board is running too high. When the neon/neon transformer recieve 12v it works fine, but when it is recieving 13.4v it wont work.

YES, did the Pinrepair recommended test of trying alternate grounding, but with 13.4v, it doesnt make any difference. And I tried replacing both IC chips associated with the neon.

Sure, it could be the transformer, I will check again, just incase it has gone bad since the last few times I tested it, but it has always worked fine when recieving 12v. the previous owner obviously had the same issue, and tried all the same repairs, changing transformer, changing IC chips, etc, then gave up and ended up doing the hack wiring, bypassing the driver board and feeding the neon from the computer power supply.

AGAIN, I am looking to find why I am getting high voltage. It is not only reading high at the neon, but also at the cabinet flipper buttons. Both places I should be getting 12v, but am getting 13.4.

I appriciate everyones input, but please thoroughly read what I have done, and what I am pinpointing as the likely problem.
 
I have the schematics for it, but they are 11 by 17, so I will have to break out my hi-res camera, hopefully tonight but I may have to wait until tomorrow but I do indeed have it.
 
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