Strange Bally Kiss issue

ELutz

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I've got a guy's Kiss pinball I've been working on for a bit.....First the quick back story...

A guy calls and tells me his Kiss pinball is resetting...and wants me to fix it. He's only had it a month or two. I go out and look at it. It's got a Two Bit repair tag hanging on it, and has seen a lot of work....a lot of non-socketed chips replaced.....massive battery damage clean-up. A lot of the IC sockets are still original (except for the lower PIA and the 5101 sockets), but they're not the crappy Scanbe brand. They seem/look OK. I check the filter cap....massive amounts of AC ripple. I change it. I also replace all the headers and connectors on the rectifier board.....they were typically burnt/hacked. She plays good...I go on my way. A few days later, he calls....it's still resetting. I decide to replace the remaining original IC sockets. On this paticular style of sockets, I pop the housing off and remove the wipers...one at a time to reduce potential damage. When I pop the housing off, I see corrosion had gotten under all the sockets. I also see someone had previously popped the socket housings off and sanded all the wipers....NICE. So, I replace all sockets, fire it back up, and play a few games. I watch the owner play a few games...as he's playing it...he goes "see, it just reset". I did see it, but it's not a traditional "reset". The game isn't re-booting. It's just kinda re-starting. The guy was on ball four. Out of the blue, he's on ball one and his score is starting over at zero. I've since seen it do this a couple more times. I haven't detected a pattern (not saying there isn't one). On random balls, and out of the blue....all of the sudden you're on ball one with the score starting over. The game never stops playing. If you were not watching the score or the ball in play displays....you wouldn't know it happened. I figured it had to be ROMs. I burned new ones...problem still happens. In desperation (the game is 25 miles away...one way) I pulled my Eight Ball Deluxe MPU, strapped it for his Kiss ROMs, and stuck it in his machine....problem still happens!!! Now I'm at a loss. The problem is totally random, and it doesn't happen a lot....maybe once every 2-3 hours. My Eight Ball Deluxe MPU has been rock solid for 7-8 years. I told the guy to really watch, and see if a pattern developes.....like if it happens only when a certain switch is hit. Honestly, I'm at a loss. Anyone, any ideas?

Thanks! Edward
 
Weird indeed.

I was going to say 5101 RAM but you replaced the whole damn MPU so that wasn't the problem.

I would suspect a power supply problem. There might be some kind of condition that "confuses" the logic. It's kind of a hack approach but with a problem like this I would replace a board at a time until the problem went away and then thoroughly check that board. I would start with the transformer/rectifier board assembly but unfortunately the assembly from eight ball deluxe won't work (unless you want to build an adapter harness). If you could reproduce the problem you could troubleshoot further with an oscilloscope or just use deductive reasoning to figure it out based on the conditions but I would probably shotgun this one at this point.
 
I know we've seen this problem here before. I'll ask my boss if he remembers what we did to fix it.

For some reason I'm thinking it had something to do with those little caps or diodes that are sometimes on the playfield switches.

I'll let you know what I find out...
 
Weird indeed.



It's kind of a hack approach but with a problem like this I would replace a board at a time until the problem went away and then thoroughly check that board. I would start with the transformer/rectifier board assembly but unfortunately the assembly from eight ball deluxe won't work (unless you want to build an adapter harness). If you could reproduce the problem you could troubleshoot further with an oscilloscope or just use deductive reasoning to figure it out based on the conditions but I would probably shotgun this one at this point.

Yeah, swapping boards was my next approach. I really thought replacing the MPU would fix it. This one really is kicking my ass. I'm hoping the guy will let me bring the entire machine to the shop, but he's being hesitant.....58 miles round trip is getting old.

Edward
 
I know we've seen this problem here before. I'll ask my boss if he remembers what we did to fix it.

For some reason I'm thinking it had something to do with those little caps or diodes that are sometimes on the playfield switches.

I'll let you know what I find out...

Please let me know....you will be added to my Christmas card list!

You know, after I got back to the shop yesterday....I started thinking about the start button switch. I haven't looked at it....to see if it's been monkeyed with, and check it's diode, and cap (if it has one).
Thanks!

Edward
 
Hey, did you ever figure this out?

I spoke with my boss about it (finally) and he said it was a shorted switch, and he thought it was on the playfield, but might be on the start button, too. One of those caps or diodes shorted out...
 
i had a problem like this on a FISH TALES and it was a cold solder joint on the power board. re-flow the header pins. check the bridge rectifiers too for cold solder. replace any electrolytic capacitors too.
 
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Check for pinched/nicked wires in the coin door harness, particularly by the hinge (cashbox edges scrape against wires). Look closely at the start button switch and diode.

Does it do this with the cashbox door open or when it's closed & locked?

What other switches are in the matrix with the start switch?
 
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Hey, did you ever figure this out?

I spoke with my boss about it (finally) and he said it was a shorted switch, and he thought it was on the playfield, but might be on the start button, too. One of those caps or diodes shorted out...

No, I haven't had a chance to get back to the guy's house. We're supposed to get back together after the holidays. I'll post when I figure it out. Thanks for everyone's suggestions/help!

Edward
 
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