Stencil Troubles

Phetishboy

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I am currently stencilling a Joust, and before the standard newb responses begin flowing, I will preface my problem post by saying this is roughly my 5th stencil job on an arcade cabinet, so I've done this before, with no issues. With this set, as all colors are on one sheet, the main sheet cannot be removed until all colors have been sprayed. Once one color is done, you have to wait for it to cure before covering it with masking tape/paper and then removing the small windows for the 2nd color, spray it, let it cure, then cover that color and then repeat the process for the 3rd color. The only problem with this, is that you can't see how any one color layer is turning out until all 3 colors are done. Well, I waited 48 hours after spraying the final color, tried to remove the stencil and nearly all the edge paint of all 3 colors pulled up, revealing nice, jagged edges. I ran my fingernail around the edge and even tried to razor the edges when I saw it happening at the top, to no avail. Now I get to hand paint nearly every edge on every color I just sprayed. To prevent this from happening on the other side, I plan on cutting that stencil into 3 sections with an exacto and removing each section as I get done painting a color. Then I will come back and cover the first 2 colors with newspapers when they dry, eliminating the need for the stencil to sit there adhered to the cabinet while the paint dries. Sonofa. Anyone else have this happen? What a bitch.
 
Are you putting latex on top of oil base or is it all latex or all oil base? The only time I have had paint pulling at the edge was when I tried painting latex paint on top of semi-gloss oil base.

The solution I came up with was for geometric patterns taped off with masking tape so YMMV. I solved it by masking off the areas I wanted covered and then taking some very fine steel wool and lightly scuffing the semi-gloss base coat to give the latex paint something to grab onto. I also removed the masking tape immediately after spraying so it didn't have time to adhere to the masking tape. If I let it sit, the overspray that was on the top of the masking tape cured and became one layer with the paint on the base coat and when I peeled the tape it stretched and pulled away from the base coat. Sort of like Colorforms (if you are old enough to remember them).

ken
 
Are you putting latex on top of oil base or is it all latex or all oil base? The only time I have had paint pulling at the edge was when I tried painting latex paint on top of semi-gloss oil base.

The solution I came up with was for geometric patterns taped off with masking tape so YMMV. I solved it by masking off the areas I wanted covered and then taking some very fine steel wool and lightly scuffing the semi-gloss base coat to give the latex paint something to grab onto. I also removed the masking tape immediately after spraying so it didn't have time to adhere to the masking tape. If I let it sit, the overspray that was on the top of the masking tape cured and became one layer with the paint on the base coat and when I peeled the tape it stretched and pulled away from the base coat. Sort of like Colorforms (if you are old enough to remember them).

ken

Oil over oil, base coat was sanded with 320 before I started spraying. The only thing I did differently than usual was not priming each layer before painting, as it causes that much extra height at the edge when you get the colored paint on. Maybe I shoulda just primed each color anyway, to hell with the extra height at the edges.
 
Did you scuff the base with a grey or green scuff type pad, after putting the stencils on, before shooting any paint there?
I wonder if the paint didn't 'bite' well enough to the underlying finish.
 
I found there was a fine art to taking them off sometimes and the sooner after considering dry, the better... like a couple hours soon kinda thing. I also would tear the main area of stencil leaving other smaller areas so when I was removing along those edges, I could peel the stencil back 'away' from the stenciled area by pulling the paper over top of the still tacked paper... if that makes sense.. that way you are almost tearing the paint along a very straight edge sideways as well instead of pulling it up..
 
jouststencil.jpg
 
Take Your time Let It Dry Longer. I will give You a perfect Example. Today, I am in the spray booth Car Is Ready For Paint, O, Chit I see a Dent that was not Fixed Right After I put the base down. I am cussing him. I tape it out Fix it , Untape the repaired area And it took the paint off the hood. I was In a hurry I sould Have Baked it. You Will Trap The Thinners in it and it will peel up.
Take your time. Unless it was not sanded properly it will peel up.
Also make shure or sure You have it pressed down to the edges real good.
Sioory We gotrs Pleelin Copice
 
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Take Your time Let It Dry Longer. I will give You a perfect Example. Today, I am in the spray booth Car Is Ready For Paint, O, Chit I see a Dent that was not Fixed Right After I put the base down. I am cussing him. I tape it out Fix it , Untape the repaired area And it took the paint off the hood. I was In a hurry I sould Have Baked it. You Will Trap The Thinners in it and it will peel up.
Take your time. Unless it was not sanded properly it will peel up.
Also make shure or sure You have it pressed down to the edges real good.
Sioory We gotrs Pleelin Copice

what ?
 
I was going to use the Joust stencils on my Multi Williams cab but now I am glad I went with the Multi stencils from TOG.
They should be pretty easy to do.
It will be my 1st attempt at stencils and am glad there are only 2 colors.
Thanks for your help Phet.
 
If it makes you feel any better.. I made stencils for a KISS cabinet, sanded it to bare wood, filler, primer, etc...painted the base coat, and started stenciling the layers. I'd done the base coat in semi-gloss white. I decided I wanted gloss white, to match the red/orange and black.

Sanded it back down, redid the base in gloss white. Stenciled both sides. On the 2nd side, final (black) layer, I sprayed too thick... it was a disaster when I pulled the stencil material. Crap. I resanded, redid the white, and redid the red/orange layer. It's sat that way for a couple of years.

I've now decided that I want to just build a new cabinet for it and spray it with a gun, instead of rattle cans. The bottom bowed downwards and it broke away from the edges on the bottom. I reglued it with Gorilla glue and it gooped out like spray foam insulation.

I plan to just build a new lower cabinet for it.

As much as it will suck, re-sand that side down, do it right, which will be the most time consuming way. You'll be glad you did, if it's anything like your other work. The finished product will be awesome.
 
Hold a sec, are these the stencils from Prok? Unless he's doing things differently now, on my Berzerk cab it was one color at a time stencil...
I have an upcoming Joust restore and probably Defender I'll be working on next spring/summer and was planning on ordering stencils from Prok for this as my past experience with these has been nothing short of awesome. I'm also going to be ordering the Moon Patrol Stencils. Please tell me these aren't Prok stencils. One color at a time is the way to go.

I am currently stencilling a Joust, and before the standard newb responses begin flowing, I will preface my problem post by saying this is roughly my 5th stencil job on an arcade cabinet, so I've done this before, with no issues. With this set, as all colors are on one sheet, the main sheet cannot be removed until all colors have been sprayed. Once one color is done, you have to wait for it to cure before covering it with masking tape/paper and then removing the small windows for the 2nd color, spray it, let it cure, then cover that color and then repeat the process for the 3rd color. The only problem with this, is that you can't see how any one color layer is turning out until all 3 colors are done. Well, I waited 48 hours after spraying the final color, tried to remove the stencil and nearly all the edge paint of all 3 colors pulled up, revealing nice, jagged edges. I ran my fingernail around the edge and even tried to razor the edges when I saw it happening at the top, to no avail. Now I get to hand paint nearly every edge on every color I just sprayed. To prevent this from happening on the other side, I plan on cutting that stencil into 3 sections with an exacto and removing each section as I get done painting a color. Then I will come back and cover the first 2 colors with newspapers when they dry, eliminating the need for the stencil to sit there adhered to the cabinet while the paint dries. Sonofa. Anyone else have this happen? What a bitch.
 
Hold a sec, are these the stencils from Prok? Unless he's doing things differently now, on my Berzerk cab it was one color at a time stencil...
I have an upcoming Joust restore and probably Defender I'll be working on next spring/summer and was planning on ordering stencils from Prok for this as my past experience with these has been nothing short of awesome. I'm also going to be ordering the Moon Patrol Stencils. Please tell me these aren't Prok stencils. One color at a time is the way to go.

Per Prok's website...
"Joust stencils come as one full length stencil with all colors in one. The colors do not overlap and this allows for far superior registration. Simply apply the stencil, peel away the next color and paint. repeat until done. Individual color pieces will be marked so you remove them in the correct order!"

.
 
The info posted above is right.. for Joust and Gyruss i chose to do the stencils with multiple colors in one piece because registration is difficult. It's really key to test your paints and use paints that are compatible with each other. That and use paints with high solids so you don't have to put too thick of a coat on to get solid color. Just as a general rule, before going full ahead stencilling I try to test my paints with painters tape to simulate stencils to see where the adhesion point is. Sometimes certain brands of paint you need to peel the paint right away before it skins up, others you need to allow 24 hours to fully cure before removing the stencils. If a customer wishes I can separate the layers no problem but it raises the cost a bit, and like always if you make a mistake I'm here to support you in getting it right.
 
Please don't mistake anything said here as being wrong, I am not upset about this thread in any way. Phet has done tons of stencil jobs and done amazing work but this time it went wrong for whatever reason and as always I will stand behind my customers and my work and make sure he gets a method that works better for him.

Most stencils I do separate all colors, Joust is so finicky on registration I made that decision and it's worked fine for virtually all users. Sometimes, it just comes down to the brand of paint used and it's adhesion properties. Had one just last week on a Flash pinball I did for a friend where the first two colors he used were one brand, the third color was a different brands "Fast Drying" paint and that third color ripped and tore when removing the stencils because even though it was dry to the touch, the bonding process took 24 hours. Stuff like that is nobody's fault but the paint not making it clear what 'dry' really means.

Regardless, i'm going to add full color separated jousts to the site as an option at the Robotron price point.
 
Although this has been talked about before, what is YOUR preference for finish for most of these - semi-gloss or gloss, latex based or oil based?

I prefer semi-gloss for most, but I'm working on a Stargate cabinet now and have your stencils. The finish on this one and most Stargates I've seen is very glossy, so I'm going to go with gloss. It's probably the same sheen, originally, across all the Williams cabinets, but Stargate just jumps out at me as shiny.


Please don't mistake anything said here as being wrong, I am not upset about this thread in any way. Phet has done tons of stencil jobs and done amazing work but this time it went wrong for whatever reason and as always I will stand behind my customers and my work and make sure he gets a method that works better for him.

Most stencils I do separate all colors, Joust is so finicky on registration I made that decision and it's worked fine for virtually all users. Sometimes, it just comes down to the brand of paint used and it's adhesion properties. Had one just last week on a Flash pinball I did for a friend where the first two colors he used were one brand, the third color was a different brands "Fast Drying" paint and that third color ripped and tore when removing the stencils because even though it was dry to the touch, the bonding process took 24 hours. Stuff like that is nobody's fault but the paint not making it clear what 'dry' really means.

Regardless, i'm going to add full color separated jousts to the site as an option at the Robotron price point.
 
Please don't mistake anything said here as being wrong, I am not upset about this thread in any way. Phet has done tons of stencil jobs and done amazing work but this time it went wrong for whatever reason and as always I will stand behind my customers and my work and make sure he gets a method that works better for him.

Most stencils I do separate all colors, Joust is so finicky on registration I made that decision and it's worked fine for virtually all users. Sometimes, it just comes down to the brand of paint used and it's adhesion properties. Had one just last week on a Flash pinball I did for a friend where the first two colors he used were one brand, the third color was a different brands "Fast Drying" paint and that third color ripped and tore when removing the stencils because even though it was dry to the touch, the bonding process took 24 hours. Stuff like that is nobody's fault but the paint not making it clear what 'dry' really means.

Regardless, i'm going to add full color separated jousts to the site as an option at the Robotron price point.

Brian is great. He has helped me out and has made more restorations possible for me than anyone else in this hobby. This was in no way a bash thread, as much as drama dude seems to want it to be. I was merely sharing my experience, looking for help and offering a "don't let this happen to you" warning. I tried using them as they were intended, I failed, I tried to touch it up, I made it worse, I will sand flat and start over. Certainly not sanding down to the wood again though, how absurd. There's four layers of brown under the stencil. Thank God I have 12 other projects to turn to while I let this one sit until I get the new stencils. Back to my Space Wars.
 
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