Star Wars cockpit from the beyond

seanboy

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Hi guys, I'm new to posting, but have lurked for a couple of years. There's some smart minds here and I'm happy to finally join!

I have quite a doozy here in acquiring my first arcade machine. I only own a pinball that I've occasionally worked on. My wife's uncle had recently let me know and offered his Star Wars cockpit that he's had in storage since 88. He purchased at that time, was told there was a possible HV issue and it's been stored ever since. I was very grateful for the offer and picked it up last week.

Its in great condition and looks to be all original with all the boards matching #'s, 2441 to be exact, so the 9th to the last machine off the line (green boards).

I was able to take a look today and snap a few shots to share. I replaced the frayed cord, blew it out a little and powered it on for a quick moment, it hasn't been turned on in almost 30 years. Sure enough there was some smoke from the HV board and it wasn't powered on more than a second or two and you can see the cooked resistor in the pictures.

Without taking advice here first, I won't go a step further on how to proceed. My experience is with pinball and I can test the components as needed to the best of my ability and hope the learn as I go, but certainly not to the detriment of this machine if it gets to the point where I could damage it.

Anyway, here it is and any advice is appreciated.
 

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More pictures
 

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Read and understand the Amplifone FAQ. You are likely going to need to do some work to that monitor to get it working reliably, but it can be done (if you don't want to send it out to people who can do it for you, see my sig if interested, as I repair and bulletproof them.)

http://www.vectorlist.org/Documents/amplifone_faq_1_2.pdf


You'll also want to learn the basics of Atari vector systems, including how to test the AR and power brick (search the archives here for info). Also, after you verify the voltages, you can try powering it up with the monitor *unplugged*, and see if you can get it to play blind, and at least verify that the game board is working. But do not just go cowboy and fire it up all at once, as you will likely cause costly damage to one or more boards. The way to bring up a vector game is in stages, verifying each stage sequentially, before powering the next one.

You can get some tips for things to check from my 6100 setup guide. It is written for the WG 6100 monitors, but it's worth a read, as some of the info in it applies to all vectors, like how to test the XY output of your game board, before connecting to the monitor. You can download it here:

https://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=404600


I wouldn't try powering the monitor up until you at least take a look at the boards, as the chances of it working off the bat are very low, and you risk doing more damage by powering it up (or even running it, if it does work), as even if it does run, it's not going to do so for long, if it has never been overhauled.

We can see from the pics that is has the original red HV transformer/flyback, which is almost certainly bad (see the FAQ for details), so you'll want to install a new one, which Arcadeshop has, here:

http://www.arcadeshop.com/i/281/amplifone-color-x-y-flyback-transformer.htm


.
 
"RED IS DEAD" :eek:


Actually, if you read the story in the FAQ, red isn't always dead (though it often is).

Apparently there were some reds that did not fall into the problem category (and the speculative story behind that is interesting), so I actually always test them now when I see them, and don't assume they're bad. (I have not found a good one yet however, but the FAQ documents that they can exist).
 
To be honest, my SW cockpit still has a RED. :004_ssuprised:
(but I fear - working today but not tomorrow)


That's actually really cool, and good to know. I'd love to find a good red one, and keep it in my own cab as a reference, to see if it will actually fail at some point.

Do you know what the 'XY No. ----' serial number on your HV board is, and how it compares to the ranges given in the FAQ for the good/bad red ones? I'd be interested to see where it falls.

I believe the FAQ states under 800 and over 17000 are most likely ok, and even if they are in the 'dead' range, they may still also be ok.
 
I've read all about the red dead flybacks, but I don't believe you can test with a multimeter, correct? Also, what's everyone's opinion on the toasted resistor?

24V regulator(s) are bad (or subsequent load; and RED) ... common issues.
HV board needs to be overhauled.
Don't want to do it yourself ... send it to Andrewb. :001_sbiggrin:
 
I've read all about the red dead flybacks, but I don't believe you can test with a multimeter, correct? Also, what's everyone's opinion on the toasted resistor?


You can't easily conclusively test them with a multimeter, that I'm aware of. I just put them on a known-working HV test board I have, to confirm them one way or the other. There is some info in the FAQ on testing them, but you need a LOPT tester, which is not a commonly found tool.

The burned resistor is a version of the ones Atari originally added at the factory. These are also explained in the FAQ, as you should add them if you have one of the earlier version HV boards that didn't have them.

It looks like someone may have done that to that board, though I'm not certain the ones shown there are high enough wattage rated. You want them to be 5 ohms, and at least 5W. (It's a little hard to tell what power those ones are). It's possible they were already replaced once, but they get hot, so they will often char the board like that, as the mod was a pretty crappy factory hack to begin with. The resistors get too hot, and are too close to the caps right next to them, and they end up cooking the caps, and the board fails.

You should replace them regardless, and install new ones in a better way. There are a couple of ways to do this. KLOV user douglasgb has a mod that uses TO-220-style mountable resistors, that screw to the nice big heatsink that is right there, so the heat goes into the sink, and not the caps and other components right next to them. He has a document explaining the mod on his site, here:

http://www.gauck.com/arcade/sw/Amplifone-HV-TO220-ResistorMod.pdf


I also do my own variation of this mod, but I use chassis-mountable power resistors, and mount them to the top of the heatsink, which gets them up and a little further away from the caps (and the holes are a little easier to drill). You can see a pic of one I have for sale, here:

https://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=418350

(Note you can see the same burn mark on the board above, as most of them look like that.)

Either way will work, but you definitely want to do one of them.
 
Dez's tribute page is a better resource if you want to research the amplifone boards etc. He has repro boards with the VREG resistors optional as TO220 parts.

Seems someone added those to your board. Sometimes they are added to the solder-side.

Do a search in the AMP FAQ for "5W" to read about the 50ohm resistors R20/R21. Inspect your MC1 for thermal damage.

Revision A201012-01 HV PCB​

http://www.dsbelec.iinet.net.au/amplifoneDB_Backup_OLD.htm
 
That's actually really cool, and good to know. I'd love to find a good red one, and keep it in my own cab as a reference, to see if it will actually fail at some point.

Do you know what the 'XY No. ----' serial number on your HV board is, and how it compares to the ranges given in the FAQ for the good/bad red ones? I'd be interested to see where it falls.

I believe the FAQ states under 800 and over 17000 are most likely ok, and even if they are in the 'dead' range, they may still also be ok.

This one is 22703, maybe it's a good one ;) looks like I'll have to send it out to get tested unless I just want to replace it. Is there any drawback to the new flyback from arcade shop? I'm sure even if this one does work it could go out at any time.
 

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Look what this DOTARD did when restoring this particular AMP HV assembly. :D

Gets that HOT resistor onto the heatsink where it belongs.
Also note the new repro transformer. GREY IS GOOD. LOL

attachment.php


https://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=418350
 
24V regulator(s) are bad (or subsequent load; and RED) ... common issues.
HV board needs to be overhauled.
Don't want to do it yourself ... send it to Andrewb. :001_sbiggrin:

Hi Vector, where do I check the 24V regulators? I'll report back with findings. Also, the specs on the burned resistor in the picture looks to be 5ohm 5 watt for a replacement per Andre, are these in a full cap kit available? I'll continue to do some reading in the meantime.

Thanks
 
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By the way, are these amps usually this wet around the cup?
 

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By the way, are these amps usually this wet around the cup?


That's just dried dielectric grease, which was put on at the factory. It's supposed to help the cup seal, but after 35+ years, it just dries out and attracts dirt. (And the tubes work fine without it. I never replace it.)

You can dissolve and clean it off with Goof Off, or 100% acetone. Same with the anode wire and cup. I use a ton of Q-tips, and just keep cleaning until the Q-tips come off clean.

Also, regarding flybacks, the Arcadeshop ones are fine. I've never heard of anyone having issues with one. However, if yours has an original red one, I'd keep it. It makes it even more rare, and original is always preferable to repro, as long as it's still in working shape. If it dies, it won't permanently damage anything else really, so there's little risk in keeping it.

As these games become more collectible through the years and decades to come, I believe details like this will become more valuable, as they are for just about any other vintage antique or collectible out there (e.g., cars, musical instruments, etc).
 
I'm learning as I go, if anyone has a moment, could you point out all the test points for the 5v, 12, 24 and b+ and any other sections I could start with? From there, I will start testing out individual components.

Thanks again for everyone's help
 
Thanks for this, I was trying to check out his mod, but it looks like his site may be down.

You can't easily conclusively test them with a multimeter, that I'm aware of. I just put them on a known-working HV test board I have, to confirm them one way or the other. There is some info in the FAQ on testing them, but you need a LOPT tester, which is not a commonly found tool.

The burned resistor is a version of the ones Atari originally added at the factory. These are also explained in the FAQ, as you should add them if you have one of the earlier version HV boards that didn't have them.

It looks like someone may have done that to that board, though I'm not certain the ones shown there are high enough wattage rated. You want them to be 5 ohms, and at least 5W. (It's a little hard to tell what power those ones are). It's possible they were already replaced once, but they get hot, so they will often char the board like that, as the mod was a pretty crappy factory hack to begin with. The resistors get too hot, and are too close to the caps right next to them, and they end up cooking the caps, and the board fails.

You should replace them regardless, and install new ones in a better way. There are a couple of ways to do this. KLOV user douglasgb has a mod that uses TO-220-style mountable resistors, that screw to the nice big heatsink that is right there, so the heat goes into the sink, and not the caps and other components right next to them. He has a document explaining the mod on his site, here:

http://www.gauck.com/arcade/sw/Amplifone-HV-TO220-ResistorMod.pdf


I also do my own variation of this mod, but I use chassis-mountable power resistors, and mount them to the top of the heatsink, which gets them up and a little further away from the caps (and the holes are a little easier to drill). You can see a pic of one I have for sale, here:

https://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=418350

(Note you can see the same burn mark on the board above, as most of them look like that.)

Either way will work, but you definitely want to do one of them.
 
I'm learning as I go, if anyone has a moment, could you point out all the test points for the 5v, 12, 24 and b+ and any other sections I could start with? From there, I will start testing out individual components.

Thanks again for everyone's help


There are test points labeled on the AR-II and game board.

Check the schematics if you need any more info.


Regarding the resistor mod doc, you can view the cached copy via google, minus the pictures. That's odd that his site is down. (I actually get a no permission to access error, which I didn't get before.)

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...220-ResistorMod.pdf+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
 
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