Space Invaders Multigame "Bit: Failed"

[JoeB1355]

Thread back from the dead!

I have a Space Invaders trimline so tatio 3 board stack. I can't seem to figure what the bit shifting chip is on it?

I get the braze kit bit failure

is it the 74154 chip ic 3? just 1 of them?

 

[jacklick]

not specific to your question but this post by blinddog may help.

What fixed your game today / general repair log

PCB: Kee Games Super bug Symptoms: The board had the picture of the car in the middle of the screen but garbage was scrolling across the screen (see Pic) Steps: Because I was seeing the car on the screen I assumed the CPU was working, turns out that assumption was wrong. that error had me...

forums.arcade-museum.com

 

[JoeB1355]

Anyone know what the bit shift chips are on a Tatio 3 board stack? I'm getting the BIT error, but can't see to find the chps listed in this thread in the schematic.

 

[wugly]

its several chips depending on which version you have. there is a version that uses 8 151 chips 175 and 174 to emulate what the shifter chip does

http://www.brentradio.com/images/Other/Docs/SpaceInvaders/TaitoSI_P1P2_Schematics.pdf

this is a sample of the shifter chip setup but might not directly correspond to what you have but the ds bus line is the shifter bus line so those chips attached to it do the shifting.

 

[wugly]

which version of the taito 3 board do you have? the taito color or the taito black and white

 

[JoeB1355]

which version of the taito 3 board do you have? the taito color or the taito black and white

I'll assume black and white -- I didn't know there were 2. IS there a board id page that would show both sets. The schematics you posted 2 of the boards look similar but not sure how close the 3 boards stack look to each other

Just took some pictures of my boards:

 

[wugly]

on the second board you can see the 2 color proms in the lower left. one has white lettering cv02 on it. the black and white only board goes under the name intruder for schematics. you have the standard taito 3 board schematics. chips in position 9 10 11 12 should be 74151 chips. they were notorious for blacking out the labels on those chips. to confirm they are what we expect them to be as part of the shifter clean the black off with a qtip and some alcohol. just gently swab it. I mean the first top board the sound board should have the 151 chips.


you don't have an mb14241 because its not in the socket 3 on sound board

 

[JoeB1355]

I wiped off the black on all the boards. I can't find any 74ls151 chips. What board is supposed to have them? The sound board (the one with the empty ic 3)?

Heres what I read off the sound board (the one with empty socket 3 and all the potentionmeters)


Sound Board:


1 - 7474


2 - 74161


3 - empty


4 - 74153


5 - 74ls153


6 - 7404


7 -


8 -


9 - 74ls153


10 - 74ls153


11 - 7404


12 - 7411


13 - 7442


14 - 74174


15 - 74174


16 -


17 - lm555


18 - 7417


19 -


20 - 7404


21 - 7416

 

[wugly]

did this thing ever work? looks like you are definitely missing a chip. socket 3 is missing the mb14241 shifting chip

 

[wugly]

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not a recommendation just pointing you towards one. I do not know if it will work or not. never had to use it. first time I ever saw a board that used it.

 

[JoeB1355]

did this thing ever work? looks like you are definitely missing a chip. socket 3 is missing the mb14241 shifting chip

Yeah it works now -- just only Space invaders -- when I play the kits Space invaders deluxe all the aliens are 1 large white square , sounds wroksI can move and shoot it and get some score. All the words come up when its starts just the aliens graphics are messes up.

lunar rescue looks ok but the little ship you have to land is a white square

Lazer War seems to look ok to me and works ok


Original with no kit SI worked fine as well.


The chips I didn't list are there just I could read them well -- All except chip 3 is an empty socket

I though you said 9 ,10, 11, 12, were supposed to be 151's since there was no 3?

I find no 151's on any of the 3 boards

 

[JoeB1355]

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not a recommendation just pointing you towards one. I do not know if it will work or not. never had to use it. first time I ever saw a board that used it.

so I need this? is socket 3 supposed to be empty? why would it work without it? at least Space Invader works.

The multi-kit flags a BIT failure. Fromm what I understand des a bunch more testing to identify issues

 

[HudsonArcade]

you don't have an mb14241 because its not in the socket 3 on sound board

It should be there.

If the sound board has 74LS151s or 25S10s, then it won't have the spot for the MB14241.

 

[HudsonArcade]

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not a recommendation just pointing you towards one. I do not know if it will work or not. never had to use it. first time I ever saw a board that used it.

Many people have done replacement boards.

Mine first opes were ~15 years ago using TTL.
Then I did a 1-chip design with a CPLDs to make the design smaller.
Now my preferred CPLDs are obsolete, so I did an new design using GALs that uses 4 chips

 

[JoeB1355]

Many people have done replacement boards.

Mine first opes were ~15 years ago using TTL.
Then I did a 1-chip design with a CPLDs to make the design smaller.
Now my preferred CPLDs are obsolete, so I did an new design using GALs that uses 4 chips

So I read somewhere about an updated ROM set not need the the "bit shifters" so could it be I have the latest ROM so they took the chip off, but the other games in the multi kit were not programed to work without it.

I did a bunch of images searches and found pictures of the board both populated and unpopulated IC3. Some didn't even have the socket installed (but the solder footprint was there) with working game boards.

Does any of this sound legit?

So if I end needing one of these any good place to get one? The one on ebay won't fit on the 3-board stack as it would hang out past where it would sit in the card rack.

 

[HudsonArcade]

So I read somewhere about an updated ROM set not need the the "bit shifters" so could it be I have the latest ROM so they took the chip off, but the other games in the multi kit were not programed to work without it.

I did a bunch of images searches and found pictures of the board both populated and unpopulated IC3. Some didn't even have the socket installed (but the solder footprint was there) with working game boards.

Does any of this sound legit?

So if I end needing one of these any good place to get one? The one on ebay won't fit on the 3-board stack as it would hang out past where it would sit in the card rack.

Highly doubtful.
It'd be way too slow to perform the bit shift operations in software on an 8080.

 

[JoeB1355]

Highly doubtful.
It'd be way too slow to perform the bit shift operations in software on an 8080.

I just read a link (trying to find again) that said most 3 board stack space invaders set will run fine without the MB14241 chip if using CV rom set.

Here's the link I found thats says 3 board with CV ROM set usually works without the chip:

UK-VAC : UK Video Arcade Collectors Forum - Search Results - mb14241

www.ukvac.com

Which makes sense, since mine worked fine before the multi-kit(and even with the kit for space invaders i). I never had that chip in the machine since I've owned it.

Did you say you made a repo? small enough to fit on the board and still fit in th board cage?

 

[JoeB1355]

Actually the ebay one might work looks like the sound board doesn't go on the rails it just hangs out the cage. Although a smaller would better if there other options.

 

[wugly]

I said that there where multiple designs for the sound board shifter. I f it was designed not to use a mb14241 it would incorporate the 8 151 chips. after you took a look at the chip labels it confirmed which schematic you need and the board design. the built those boards for what they had available and what was going to be cheapest for them to use. without a shifter you are going to have some problems

 

[HudsonArcade]

Actually the ebay one might work looks like the sound board doesn't go on the rails it just hangs out the cage. Although a smaller would better if there other options.

My newest design is going off to the fab soon: