Space Duel Options

[72gto]

I have had the urge to get another vector and now have a Space Duel lined up and arriving this weekend.

I know Gravitar, Major Havoc, and Black Widow will convert with pcb swaps and easily sourced cp interface boards but is there any solution equivalent to the Jrok multi boards to have access to all of those (and not buying another 2,000 in hard to source pcbs)? Hopefully there are some suggestions and recommendations.

Thanks!

 

[Charles Kline]

We discussed this a bit in my Space Duel restore thread starting at post #14: https://forums.arcade-museum.com/threads/space-duel-back-from-beyond-the-dead.477768/

 

[72gto]

Perfect! Now subscribed.

Damn it, I started into that thread last week but checked out when there was debate over the use of "duel" vs "dual".... I am weak — I can't take both election reporting and cross talk about the proper use of "duel" vs "dual" in the same day...

 

[andrewb]

Yeah, I explained the options in Post #15, in Charles's thread above.

You still need to swap CP's (or make a multi-CP, that has some way to specify which controls are active for what game).

So in short, no, there's no simple Jrok-like solution. But you can put something together with some work.

 

[Homer_J123]

Eventually when this is ready for production you can get SD, BW and Gravitar on one board but I haven't heard when its suppose to be ready https://highscoresave.com/space-duel-multigame-free-play-and-high-score-save-kit/

 

[andrewb]

Eventually when this is ready for production you can get SD, BW and Gravitar on one board but I haven't heard when its suppose to be ready https://highscoresave.com/space-duel-multigame-free-play-and-high-score-save-kit/

Yes, that was covered in my post referenced above.

People should bug Joe about it, just to see where it's at. I suspect it's been 'almost ready' for some time. However it's a service that you need to send your board in for (as it requires pretty extensive mods), so it isn't a drop-in kit.

I believe it's a system Jochen was making. This idea has been discussed for years, and was even attempted by others. SD boards are similar to G/BW boards, except they don't have the analog scaling circuitry that G/BW has. The funny thing however, is that the SD PCB actually has the layout for the scaling parts, they just weren't populated, as SD doesn't use that function. So part of the mod is populating that section, and then modifying the code to use it, as the ROM and memory space on a SD board is also different. (And then you need to integrate all 3 games into one software, with a menu, etc.)

I'm sure there are a lot of little things to button up to make it a clean product, but it'll be pretty cool once pulled off. And there are a ton more SD boards out there than G/BW's.

 

[Charles Kline]

Eventually when this is ready for production you can get SD, BW and Gravitar on one board but I haven't heard when its suppose to be ready https://highscoresave.com/space-duel-multigame-free-play-and-high-score-save-kit/

I did send @HighScoreSaves a message about it but never got a reply.

 

[72gto]

I want the HSS solution... IT HAS GOD MODE...

I don't know what it is but at my house I can't even keep my own parking space in the garage... I WANT god mode...

 

[Homer_J123]

I did send @HighScoreSaves a message about it but never got a reply.

Same here, no response.

 

[Digimon]

I would prefer a switcher to place an asteroids PCB in the Space Duel cab, too.

 

[dutchman]

There is a multi game available with SD, BW, & Grav but it only works on a BW or Grav pcb. You still have to work out the control panel.

 

[fuko]

Toledoflyer is building an adaptor to run the Cinevectron FPGA in a Space Duel. So soon you will be able to play all the Cinematronics and Vectorbeam games in that cabinet.

 

[Charles Kline]

Playing B&W vector games in a Color vector cabinet doesn't make sense. What color will the vectors be? If they think white then everyone is about to find out just how crappy the convergence on their 6100 really is.

Not to mention the major reduction in resolution due to the shadow mask.

 

[fuko]

Playing B&W vector games in a Color vector cabinet doesn't make sense. What color will the vectors be?

Boxing Bugs, War of the Worlds and QB-3 are all native color and were originally intended for the 6100. The kit also comes with a custom version of color Star Castle (courtesy of Outerworld Arcade).

Of course the other games will have white vectors (EDIT: I checked with Brian and this isn't 100% correct, but he can clarify). Having the option to play a bunch of uncommon vector games in your Space Duel cab sounds pretty cool to me. Scott's Tempest FPGA has Omega Race in white vectors (EDIT: also not 100% correct), and I haven't seen a bunch of complaints about that.

 

[toledoflyer]

Playing B&W vector games in a Color vector cabinet doesn't make sense. What color will the vectors be? If they think white then everyone is about to find out just how crappy the convergence on their 6100 really is.

Not to mention the major reduction in resolution due to the shadow mask.

Actually, the convergence on the monitors I've tested with so far have been pretty good. What I noticed more is the linearity of the intensity seems to be all over the place likely because most of the color vectors don't use multiple intensities just color combinations so the cutoff and bias adjustments on the 6100 are usually way out of spec. I also found the Vector VGA device takes advantage of this and only has ONE level for each color (ON or OFF) so it can't create a "DIM" white. Because of these two factors I used "teal" for the dim vectors and "white" for the bright ones. I could easily compile a version that made the dim vectors dim white but my concern is it's likely the monitors people will use won't show the difference very well due to the monitor adjustments being out.

As for the resolution reduction, yes the shadow mask or more correctly the dot pitch of the color tube does "limit" the resolution when compared to a BW tube that has no dot pitch (continuous phosphor coating). This is noticeable on the games with no overlays as the overlay tends to diffuse the light and make the vectors "thicker" but I haven't had anyone complain about this. What I've noticed is since there is no separate focus control on Cinematronics monitors the brightness when adjust to give a decent intensity seems to bloom the spot size on the monitor to a similar resolution limit. So the only place it's pretty noticeable is on games with no overlay and lots of DIM vectors. Ripoff is one of the ones I notice it on most.

I have received several requests to be able to use a SD CAB and it seems most of the people who purchased kits are not comfortable wiring in a WG6100 to take advantage of the color output on the kit which is unfortunate. Hopefully this will allow an easier path for them. Coupled with the multivector CPs available for SD CABs I think this could be a pretty sweet option for the kit.

 

[andrewb]

Boxing Bugs, War of the Worlds and QB-3 are all native color and were originally intended for the 6100. The kit also comes with a custom version of color Star Castle (courtesy of Outerworld Arcade).

Of course the other games will have white vectors (EDIT: I checked with Brian and this isn't 100% correct, but he can clarify). Having the option to play a bunch of uncommon vector games in your Space Duel cab sounds pretty cool to me. Scott's Tempest FPGA has Omega Race in white vectors (EDIT: also not 100% correct), and I haven't seen a bunch of complaints about that.

I agree with Charles that the convergence on many 6100's is all over the place. I have several, and none of them is perfect. You just don't normally see it, as most games are very RGB single-color heavy. But when you call up the all-white grid pattern in test mode, it jumps out more.

I wonder if you could just add three jumpers to this adapter, to allow users to disable colors, and have just a single color. Green would probably look pretty good, but people could have their pick.

 

[toledoflyer]

I agree with Charles that the convergence on many 6100's is all over the place. I have several, and none of them is perfect. You just don't normally see it, as most games are very RGB single-color heavy. But when you call up the all-white grid pattern in test mode, it jumps out more.

I wonder if you could just add three jumpers to this adapter, to allow users to disable colors, and have just a single color. Green would probably look pretty good, but people could have their pick.

The adapter has a cable for the color output from the kit. You could easily just not connect one or two of the colors. But as I mentioned above the intensity linearity issue is MUCH more noticeable than the convergence so if you did just use one color it's very likely the bright and dim vectors would look very much alike which is a key element in the game play. For games like Star Castle knowing which segments you already hit once is very important. For these reasons I think it's much more beneficial to take advantage of the color difference to highlight this. If someone did want to use just a single color I would need to make a build the re-institutes the level difference on the RGB output, could be done but I'd rather not complicate the options (having 2 separate FPGA designs) unless I get significant requests from the customers.