Someone school me on cabinet types and values

jcar302

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Donor 2011, 2024
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Seems the more i read, the less i know.
My first thoughts when entering this hobby (which i guess you can say i'll still in the process of because i haven't bought a damn thing) was to pick out the games i like and try to collect them.
Not so easy since i guess my desire for mostly steering wheel driving games makes things tough.

So while in my pursuit of a demolition derby, i figured i consider other options to get me into hobby.

Problem is, i just don't know what to look for, i go through ebay, craigs and the classifieds here, but i can't for the life of me figure out what's best for me.
Prices are also all over the place, one guy wants 2 grand for a machine and the next guy has it for $400. Are the guys that want 2g's for an upright just dreamers?

So if i was to start out building a 60 in 1 or mame machine how do i know the joystick control panels are going to be a direct fit?
Is there a certain cabinet that was the most mass produced that almost controllers fit in it?

I would think with my lack of knowledge on the topic that the most common type of setup would be best for me, so what is the most common?

I see guys here claiming they wouldn't pay over $50 for mediocre cabinets for undesireable games, but when i search locally seems that nothing has an asking price of less than $150.


Any help is appreciated, just need to find a starting point.

So what is it that i should be looking for and how do i know it's the right dimensions?
 
Control panels will be pretty unique to the cabinet they came from. Even between very similar looking games, the latching mechanisms will be different. From a MAME perspective, you can't just expect any other panel to just drop in to whatever cabinet you've elected to use. You'd have to make/find several panels that all go to the same cabinet, and install the controls on them you want (e.g. trak-ball, spinner, etc).

For a generic cabinet though, the Dynamo "cut corner" cabinet is really common, used by lots of the JAMMA games that came out in the 90's. It was a very popular cabinet for the fighting games and junk from that era, so finding more panels shouldn't be that hard. Similarly, the Midway Mortal Kombat cabinets have a massive control panel box, and you can make new top panels for it (it's just a piece of flat wood).

But, enough about MAME. We generally don't tolerate that junk here. What you want is real games...

What's a good price on a 25 year old video game? It depends. It's a very broad subject, and an open ended question. What's a good price on a 25 year old car? It depends. Is it a Camaro Iroc-Z or a Dodge Aries? Big difference in desirability and value.

Condition, desirability, rarity - all play in to it big time. But, in general, expect to pay around $250 for a complete, run of the mill dedicated game, in average non-working or "workingish" condition. For a game that's nice, clean, and working, maybe $300 to $500. Conversion crap, junk that's got some crappy fighting game in it, expect more around the $100-$200 mark. Broken junk games in bad shape and missing parts, and you're closer to $50. All this stuff varies by location, and there will always be exceptions (you could spend $400 for a waterlogged, moldy Black Widow and still have a great deal, provided it was complete). Or you could spend $250 for a very clean, working Popeye, and just be doing kind of OK.

You need to learn more about the hobby, more about the games - learn to recognize when a game is in it's original cabinet, and learn how to spot conversions. Many times a seller will try to pass off a game as dedicated (once a guy swore up and down that the Mr. Do he was trying to sell me was dedicated, and wouldn't believe me when I pointed out it was in a Taito cabinet).

Also remember that among collectors, we value things a bit differently than others that don't know about them. Many people are of the mindset that all arcade games are valuable - and some people are foolish enough to pay a lot of money, not knowing any better. There's also a huge rift between what we deal with as hobbyists and what "retail" places charge when selling things to the general public for their game rooms.

Try to go after games you like too. No sense collecting a game and fixing it if you don't like playing it. This is NOT a hobby where one makes much money. You're generally going to spend more money/time fixing a game than you can get back when you sell it.

And try to have fun. Remember, we're talking about video games here. Video games are meant to be played and enjoyed. Don't get too anal about fixing every tiny little flaw and making games into museum pieces. Every once in a while someone migrates to games from working on vintage cars and gets all bent out of shape about matching serial numbers and stuff... Most of us aren't that serious. Collect games you like. Fix them to a condition where they work and you're happy looking at it, and have fun playing them.

-Ian
 
Thanks Ian for the response.
The mame thing isn't really what i wanted anyway, but i wanted to keep my options open.
I posted my desired list on another thread and most people seemed to think i was shooting too high.
So i figured i could build up something that had a bunch of games in it to have some fun while looking for my preferred games.
Most of the games i want i don't think can be converted because of how intricate their steering setups are.

I originally did feel that why spend on money on something i really don't want, just to say i have it. But there seemed to be concerns with repair and reliability of my favorites. Hence the idea to have a unit that has multiple games in it that so everyone that comes over gets to play a game they like.

Ultimately, i'm all about Demolition Derby.

Is a 60 in 1 jamma as frowned upon as a mame machine?
So if i'm understanding correctly, all cabinets are slightly unique so there is some customization no matter what?

Not really used to be the new guy in a hobby, so i appreciate the patience.
And i'm not up for doing anything blasphemous, i know how i feel when someone puts a carbeurator on a 5 liter mustang, and i don't want to be that guy.
 
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It's not that they're downright frowned upon - it's just that the multicades (MAME, 60-in-1) aren't really considered true games, especially since so many of them are done so poorly. Lots of us own MAME cabinets or 60-in-1's, we just don't talk about them as much, since this forum is directed to collecting and preserving arcade machines, not necessarily building bootlegs that do something similar. Also, most of us, being enthusiasts, notice the little imperfections and differences in the emulated games. The sounds are off, the control response is a little different, they don't always look right, etc.

Another gripe we have is when people take a "classic" game, and hack it up, drill holes in it, bolt a control panel to it that's large enough to land panes on and stuff some PC in it running MAME.

Demolition Derby is a great game - well worth pursuing. The warnings are because it's rare, parts are hard to get, and it's notoriously unreliable. If you have a background in electronics, you shouldn't have a problem. But it's an MCR game, the boardset and power supply both have well known weak points. It's just a complicated game. There are lots of "hard" games to get working, due to one or another design shortcoming, or overall complexity. Berzerk and Pole Position come to mind.

Other games, such as the later Jamma games, or even other classics like Pac-Man/Ms. Pac-Man, Centipede, Dig Dug, and other simpler games are much more reliable, easier to work on, and more straightforward.

I found your wishlist in another thread:
Others i like would be 720, mortal combat 3, super sprint, offroad and spy hunter.

You've got some doozies in there. Most of those are complicated:

720
Medium resolution monitor
complicated custom joystick control
LARGE complicated boardset

On the plus side, there's lots of info on 720, as it's quite popular, despite being rare. It's usually a fairly expensive game when it turns up.

Super Sprint
Medium resolution monitor
complicated boardset

Spy Hunter
MCR game - complicated boardset with flakey interconnects.
Lousy power supply
Battery located on lousy power supply, leaks and destroys said power supply board
picky about monitors, not all will work right. But, at least it's standard resolution

The other games you've got aren't too bad. Mortal Kombat 3 is quite popular, and it's a JAMMA game. Standard resolution. Single board. No hard drive. Nothing fancy or hard to maintain. It's fairly common, although the dedicated cabinet might be a bit scarce. I think the board is expensive, but that's because lots of people like the game.

Super Off Road is a Cinemat game. Again, ROM based, standard resolution. The boardset is fairly reliable, except I know some Cinemat games had batteries on the daughter boards that liked to leak. I don't know if this is one of those games or not. The base board was shared between several other games, many of which suck, so finding parts shouldn't be hard. You've got three steering wheels, so three optic boards - but again, those aren't too bad.

If you've never done anything in the arcade hobby before, and are not familiar with electronics, I'd suggest starting with something JAMMA simply because they're so easy to work on. There are also a lot of cheap JAMMA games, and you can just swap the boards around. If you like Mortal Kombat, then you could look for a large two player fighting game cabinet, fix it up, and put MK3 in it. Lots of the MK3 games I saw on location were conversions, I don't know how many dedicated cabs they made of that one.

Medium resolution games are hard to work on because the monitors are rare and hard to repair. They run hot, cook the monitor chassis, they're more complicated, more parts, etc. Medium res games include Super Sprint, 720, Paperboy, NARC, and a lot of the newer sitdown drivers (Cruisin' World, etc.). Replacement parts aren't always easy to get, and medium resolution monitors are usually expensive (even broken ones). I'd suggest waiting until you have familiarity with monitors before buying a medium resolution game, unless it already works. Your first monitor repair should NOT be a medium resolution monitor.

We're always here to help though, if you're willing to learn, we can help you.

-Ian
 
Damn, Ian- you always have great responses! I only can add- READ, READ, READ! Keep clicking on the "New Posts" header and read any repair thread, problem thread, etc. Make sure to read Ian's monitor sticky thread in the Monitors section. Also, read every one of Bob Roberts' bulletin board posts: http://www.therealbobroberts.net/helppage.html

Have fun!
 
Thanks ian,
Seems like my taste in anything always costs me more money, more headaches or both.
Not sure i'm so interested in a just one old school game like pac man, galaga, centipede, i think they are cool, but not sure they are the type of game that i would think "wow that's mine". The only ones of that type that i really like are cocktail tables, which i found a ms pacman locally, just can't figure out what it's worth, needs new glass and underlay which i priced out at about $300.
Since i finished putting my car together, i really have been looking to build something new. That project was not easy or cheap, but it got done.
By trade, i'm a licensed electrician, but contrary to popular belief, rarely do we work directly with electronics though.

So in your opinion, while looking for a DD, maybe i build a mortal combat III, which i would need one of the larger cabinets for?

How do i identify a good candidate of a cabinet?
 
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The only ones of that type that i really like are cocktail tables, which i found a ms pacman locally, just can't figure out what it's worth, needs new glass and underlay which i priced out at about $300.
Artwork is almost always expensive. Compare that to the monitor and the board in that game, which aren't worth $300 together.

A Midway cocktail in average shape with no glass? I dunno, $150-$250, depending on the condition of the cabinet. Water damage sucks...

Since i finished putting my car together, i really have been looking to build something new. That project was not easy or cheap, but it got done.
Cars are going to be a LOT more expensive than anything arcade. A very expensive arcade game would be maybe $1000? You could probably spend that much on just tires.

By trade, i'm a licensed electrician, but contrary to popular belief, rarely do we work directly with electronics though.
But, as an electrician, at least you understand electricity, the difference between AC and DC, the difference between volts and amps, and you know how to use a multimeter. Big step in the right direction.

So in your opinion, while looking for a DD, maybe i build a mortal combat III, which i would need one of the larger cabinets for?
Demolition Derby is pretty rare. It came in two versions - the upright (two player) and the more desirable cocktail table (four player). The cocktail version is hard to work on simply because it's a pain in the butt to get to anything in that cabinet. Add in the complexity of the game itself. But, if you find one in good shape, buy it - even if you don't know how to fix it now, you can learn.

How do i identify a good candidate of a cabinet?

Condition of the cabinet, look for damage to the wood, water damage, swelling. Damaged or missing artwork - repro art is available for some games but not all. It's usually pretty expensive too. Dedicated games are always nicer than conversions. Look for obvious damage, burn marks, bad wiring, bypassed fuses. For me, condition of the cabinet is everything, since I suck when it comes to any kind of woodwork or painting.

You want to ensure that the hard to find or unique parts are there, weigh that against price. If a JAMMA fighting game is missing a joystick and buttons or a power supply - no biggie, those parts are easy to get and cheap. But if 720 is missing a joystick - then there's a problem, since that part is going to be a lot harder to get, being unique to that game. It would affect what the game is worth, since the part will be difficult to replace.

In most games, the game logic boards and monitor are the most valuable electronic parts.

Pretty much anything in a JAMMA game is going to be easy. Joysticks, buttons, power supplies, wiring harness - all common, currently made. Once you deviate into the custom controls, parts get harder to find. Steering wheels are hit or miss - some parts are common, others are not. Some game boards are cheap (Dig Dug, Mr. Do!, Centipede), others are very expensive (Quantum), others never work right unless rebuilt (Pole Position, Galaga)

It's very hard to give general guidelines other than to do research and reading - but even then you have to make the judgment of "What is it worth to ME". A game is only worth what someone is willing to pay. Try to weigh what it will take to get a game to a condition you'll be happy with against the price, and consider accordingly. No different than looking at an old car - you'd want to know what parts are scarce, about what it would take to fix, and consider all total, if the endeavor is worth it to you.

Research the games you really want - read the old repair threads here, check out eBay, look for parts. See what is out there. I don't know if repro art is available for Demolition Derby, for example. Also, download the manual for games you're interested in. See what's in there, so you know what to look for when looking at a game for sale. You don't want to be burned on a non-working game, being told that it's all there, only to find out that the game uses a multiboard stack, some of which are missing. Most game manuals are available from arcarc.xmission.com or Crazykong.com

Also, hopefully a fellow collector has what you want - you could always try posting a WTB in the trading section here, perhaps someone has a DD that's not too far away.

-Ian
 
Thanks again Ian.
I don't mind spending the money on things like artwork to bring a machine up to par.
Am i independently wealthy? no, but a $100 here $100 there is ok once i have the base machine to work with.
Not really interested in a $1200 completely restored machine (which i was told by a dealer that they could get me), if i did that i would be back to square one with nothing to work on.
As far as tires, ya i'm a grand deep. Would have been nice if i didn't ruin the rears in one summer.
I'll take your advice and put up a wanted ad here.

For research on Demo Derby, this forum seems to be the only place on the entire internet with any info, i must have done 100 google searches and came up with less than what i come up with in a search on this forum. So obviously i'm in the right place.
 
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Damn, Ian- you always have great responses! I only can add- READ, READ, READ! Keep clicking on the "New Posts" header and read any repair thread, problem thread, etc. Make sure to read Ian's monitor sticky thread in the Monitors section. Also, read every one of Bob Roberts' bulletin board posts: http://www.therealbobroberts.net/helppage.html

Have fun!
Thank you for that link.
The abbreviations section is extremely helpful, now i won't feel like you guys are talking some secret texting language.
 
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